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#31
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Michael Wise wrote:
In article , Pooh Bear wrote: The Cold War is over - or did someone forget to mention it to you ? Somebody needs to tell that to the USN VQ-1 EP-3 crew who were held prisoner by the Chinese military several days before being allowed to even speak with the outside world. Compare that to Gary Powers' treatment if you want to make a Cold War comparison. If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to try and deter such action. I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA to Chinese spy planes off its shores ! The number of Chinese apologists spouting this BS sickening. I'm sorry that you are sickened by impartial comment. Chinese ELINT aircraft have plaid spook on the Koreans and Japanese for years. They are intercepted by those countries' assets as well as those of our USAF and USN. Sure, I don't doubt it. Would Japan be justified to recklessly intercept their PRC spy planes in international airspace and then take the crew prisoner when they are forced to land as a consequence of an incompetently flown intercept? If such a thing happened I'm sure that they crew would be 'invited' to explain what happened. I doubt that this would happen in public. You can choose whether that constitutes holding someone prisoner. Unless the crew were carrying passports ( as per civilian flights ) , I'm sure that there would be at the very minimum immigration procedures to deal with. Graham |
#32
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In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote: The Cold War is over - or did someone forget to mention it to you ? Somebody needs to tell that to the USN VQ-1 EP-3 crew who were held prisoner by the Chinese military several days before being allowed to even speak with the outside world. Compare that to Gary Powers' treatment if you want to make a Cold War comparison. If the USA chooses to spy on the PRC, I'm unsurprised that the PRC wishes to try and deter such action. I would be interested to see the reaction of the USA to Chinese spy planes off its shores ! The number of Chinese apologists spouting this BS sickening. I'm sorry that you are sickened by impartial comment. I see, so you would have no problem with a ROK fighter intercepting a Chinese spy plane in international airspace; causing serious damage to it; ignoring all radio calls on international distress frequencies requesting an emergency landing in Korea (closest field); making the crew exit the plane at gun point; holding the crew incommunicado with their country and the rest of the world; and then proceeding to examine in detail the proprietary systems in that aircraft? Chinese ELINT aircraft have plaid spook on the Koreans and Japanese for years. They are intercepted by those countries' assets as well as those of our USAF and USN. Sure, I don't doubt it. Do you doubt those countries don't recklessly intercept PRC spook planes and don't make a habit of taking the crew of other "Most Favored" tading nations prisoner? Would Japan be justified to recklessly intercept their PRC spy planes in international airspace and then take the crew prisoner when they are forced to land as a consequence of an incompetently flown intercept? If such a thing happened I'm sure that they crew would be 'invited' to explain what happened. I doubt that this would happen in public. You can choose whether that constitutes holding someone prisoner. If in the course of this "invitation" they were denied any contact with the outside world and their own country for several days....then they were prisoners. Unless the crew were carrying passports ( as per civilian flights ) , I'm sure that there would be at the very minimum immigration procedures to deal with. "Immigration procedures" which require the crew to be held without being allowed contact with the outside world for several days? --Mike |
#33
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#34
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Michael Wise wrote:
In article , (phil hunt) wrote: The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like the Russians too. They just don't like to admit it much. Thieving capitalists who invent nothing and simply copy/counterfeit what the rest of the world creates. Didn't people use to say that about Japan? I don't know. If they did, I wasn't one of them. Yes, they did, in the '50s and early '60s, at least. their products were generally laughed at in the U.S. as poorly made rubbish, often cheap plastic toys and the like. But times change. Japan does not have a history of openly tolerated theft of intellectual property (media, software, etc.), and I think most of us would agree Japan has created (as opposed to copied) a number of innovative or otherwise excellent products (automotive, cellular, consumer electronics, etc.) The same cannot be said for China. Yet, but then it couldn't be said for Japan either for ca. 30 years after WW2. They started out at the low end, as did e.g. South Korea and Taiwan, and built up their industrial infrastructure and design abilities until their products were able to compete on a world stage. I expect China will follow a similar arc - as it is, chances are pretty good that any plush toy or piece of clothing you might buy was made in the PRC. Guy |
#35
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In article ,
Guy Alcala wrote: The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like the Russians too. They just don't like to admit it much. Thieving capitalists who invent nothing and simply copy/counterfeit what the rest of the world creates. Didn't people use to say that about Japan? I don't know. If they did, I wasn't one of them. Yes, they did, in the '50s and early '60s, at least. their products were generally laughed at in the U.S. as poorly made rubbish, often cheap plastic toys and the like. But times change. Simply making cheap quality goods doesn't equate to copying/counterfeiting. Are you saying that after WWII, Japan was the world's biggest infringer of counterfeiting other peoples' work and/or goods? Japan does not have a history of openly tolerated theft of intellectual property (media, software, etc.), and I think most of us would agree Japan has created (as opposed to copied) a number of innovative or otherwise excellent products (automotive, cellular, consumer electronics, etc.) The same cannot be said for China. Yet, but then it couldn't be said for Japan either for ca. 30 years after WW2. They started out at the low end, as did e.g. South Korea and Taiwan, Again, you're response continues to ignore the main thrust of my point and that point is not that China makes cheap quality stuff. My point is that China steals (something like 90% of all software, music, and videos) are ripped off copies. built up their industrial infrastructure and design abilities until their products were able to compete on a world stage. A country's products will never be able to compete on a world stage if that country cannot or will not innovate. As an IT professional, I can say China hasn't produced a single piece of hardware or software that any network or IT professional would even remotely consider deploying...although that doesn't stop them from bootlegging everybody else's work. I expect China will follow a similar arc - as it is, chances are pretty good that any plush toy or piece of clothing you might buy was made in the PRC. Perhaps. But living in the U.S. city with the largest Chinese community (some 32% of SF's population is Chinese) and in a neighborhood which is well over 70% Chinese, and having kids in a public school which is about 85% Chinese...I have a pretty darn good idea how to discern Chinese products and services. Where possible, I avoid purchasing anything made in China. --Mike |
#36
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:37:00 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:
In article , (phil hunt) wrote: The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like the Russians too. They just don't like to admit it much. Thieving capitalists who invent nothing and simply copy/counterfeit what the rest of the world creates. Didn't people use to say that about Japan? I don't know. If they did, I wasn't one of them. Japan does not have a history of openly tolerated theft of intellectual property (media, software, etc.), and I think most of us would agree Japan has created (as opposed to copied) a number of innovative or otherwise excellent products (automotive, cellular, consumer electronics, etc.) The same cannot be said for China. I guess they didn't invent printing then. Or gunpowder. -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
#37
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:19:01 GMT, Guy Alcala wrote:
Michael Wise wrote: In article , (phil hunt) wrote: The Chinese have essentially become capitalists today. Just like the Russians too. They just don't like to admit it much. Thieving capitalists who invent nothing and simply copy/counterfeit what the rest of the world creates. Didn't people use to say that about Japan? I don't know. If they did, I wasn't one of them. Yes, they did, in the '50s and early '60s, at least. their products were generally laughed at in the U.S. as poorly made rubbish, often cheap plastic toys and the like. But times change. And in the 70s and 80s they said the same things about Hong Kong. Now it's China's turn. I wonder who'll be next? India? -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
#38
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:47:56 GMT, Michael Wise wrote:
Perhaps. But living in the U.S. city with the largest Chinese community (some 32% of SF's population is Chinese) and in a neighborhood which is well over 70% Chinese, and having kids in a public school which is about 85% Chinese...I have a pretty darn good idea how to discern Chinese products and services. Where possible, I avoid purchasing anything made in China. You come across as a racist bigot. -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
#39
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#40
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