2 civilian airliners down south of Moscow

My local paper this morning said the southernmost plane sent a hijack code
just before it went off radar.

--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
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"Pete" wrote in message
...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ash/index.html

Within 4 minutes of each other. Both took off from Domodedovo

Coincidence, or...?

Pete
-----------------------------------------------
(CNN) -- Two passenger planes have crashed in Russia Tuesday night,
Russian
officials and a news organization said.
A passenger jet carrying 34 passengers and eight crew members in the Tula
region crashed about 160 kilometers (100 miles) south of Moscow, the
ministry reported.

A second plane went down about 160 kilometers (100 miles) from
Rostov-on-Don, in southern Russia, government-run news agency Ria Novosti
reported.

A ministry spokeswoman said she could only confirm that the second plane
had
been lost to radar.

The first plane disappeared from radar at 10:56 p.m. (2:56 p.m. ET), a
ministry spokeswoman said.

The Tupolev-134 had taken off from Moscow's Domodedovo Airport and was en
route to Volgograd, in southern Russia.

The second plane, a Tupolev-154, disappeared at 11 p.m. (3 p.m. ET) after
having taken off from the same airport en route to Sochi in southern
Russia,
Ria Novosti reported.

There was no immediate word how many people were aboard the second plane.

The Tupolev-154 is a standard medium-range airliner on domestic flights in
Russia, according to aviation websites.

In article VP6Xc.135504$sh.122307@fed1read06, Darrell
wrote:

My local paper this morning said the southernmost plane sent a hijack code
just before it went off radar.

A report that has not been discounted by Russian authorities.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

John A. Weeks III wrote:

In article VP6Xc.135504$sh.122307@fed1read06, Darrell
wrote:

My local paper this morning said the southernmost plane sent a hijack
code just before it went off radar.

A report that has not been discounted by Russian authorities.

-john-


....which proves, yet again, how little journalists understand: setting the
transponder/IFF to emergency mode is done in a hijacking - or any other
emergency. All it does is to show the plane with a different display on the
radar screen.
--
Mailman


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Mailman wrote:

...which proves, yet again, how little journalists understand: setting the
transponder/IFF to emergency mode is done in a hijacking - or any other
emergency.

Uhhh...no. The ICAO transponder emergency distress code is 7700 while hijacking
is (I think??) 7200. There's also one for NORDO (No Radio) which I think is
7600.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote
Mailman wrote:

...which proves, yet again, how little journalists understand: setting the
transponder/IFF to emergency mode is done in a hijacking - or any other
emergency.

Uhhh...no. The ICAO transponder emergency distress code is 7700 while hijacking
is (I think??) 7200. There's also one for NORDO (No Radio) which I think is
7600.

7500 for hijack. Your other guesses are correct. 77 and 76 came from the old
64 code days. Back when there was only 10 airplanes within a hundred miles of
an airport :-) 00 was the intercept code, and 11 was the interceptor weapons free
code (nuclear). 12 was contact flying below 12kft.

In article ,
(BUFDRVR) wrote:

Mailman wrote:

...which proves, yet again, how little journalists understand: setting
the
transponder/IFF to emergency mode is done in a hijacking - or any other
emergency.

Uhhh...no. The ICAO transponder emergency distress code is 7700 while
hijacking
is (I think??) 7200. There's also one for NORDO (No Radio) which I think
is
7600.

Hijack is 7500. For some reason I haven't fathomed, the FAA ATC
procedure is to contact the aircraft by radio and ask "Sir, please
confirm you are squawking 7500."

Has it occurred that just maybe, here and there, a hijacker just might
not notice the transponder code was changed?

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote

Hijack is 7500. For some reason I haven't fathomed, the FAA ATC
procedure is to contact the aircraft by radio and ask "Sir, please
confirm you are squawking 7500."

That's just one option. There are other radio code phrases. We used to
get new ones all the time when we filed.

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

Hijack is 7500. For some reason I haven't fathomed, the FAA ATC
procedure is to contact the aircraft by radio and ask "Sir, please
confirm you are squawking 7500."

Oh great ! What presence of mind ! What berk thought that one up ?

Has it occurred that just maybe, here and there, a hijacker just might
not notice the transponder code was changed?

Mercuns just love to screw up the admin way.


Graham

In article ,
Pooh Bear wrote:

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

Hijack is 7500. For some reason I haven't fathomed, the FAA ATC
procedure is to contact the aircraft by radio and ask "Sir, please
confirm you are squawking 7500."

Oh great ! What presence of mind ! What berk thought that one up ?

Any hijacker who knows what "squawking 7500" means will certainly know
enough about the rest of the system to either respond correctly or turn
the system back to the right freq.

The ones who *don't* know what it means won't catch the significance of
the message (and in the early moments of the hijack, they won't be
hearing the radio anyway).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Pooh Bear wrote in message ...
Howard Berkowitz wrote:

Hijack is 7500. For some reason I haven't fathomed, the FAA ATC
procedure is to contact the aircraft by radio and ask "Sir, please
confirm you are squawking 7500."

Oh great ! What presence of mind ! What berk thought that one up ?

someone has a good presence of mind. let look at this:

"'Aircraft X', confirm your squawk, 'Center X'". thats taken what 7
words, how long does it take to say ?

now consider the following:
1. when an emergency code is squawked, say for example a 7500 squawk,
the controller doesnt leap in his chair exclaiming "A Hijack! A
Hijack! what do i do?" for someone else say, "****! get the president
on the phone!" rather:

an emergency squawk initiates a set procedure, which will involve the
controller requiring radio silence from everyone else on that freq.
and will likely provide an alternate freq. for everyone else to change
to and other aircraft will be vectored from the vicinity. the
controllers will implement an action plan or rather set procedure
depending on what the situation requires.

2. transponders have a couple of different methods of entereing the
squawk code, some have numeric keypads, others have rotating dials.
some also have a feature to shortcut to a specific code.

accidental input of a specific code, has happened, does happen and
will happen. Personally speaking, durin the very first days of
instruction, a few moons ago now, i was advised to enter transponder
codes from the back first, to prevent any accidental emergency code
squwaks (with the rotational dial transponder its possible as you are
winding through the numbers to trigger an emergency code) and so set
off the alam bells at the handling control center.

3. controllers are pretty capable people, believe it or not, and their
familiarity with their daily profession enables them to make accurate
judgement calls on many situations.

A controller asking an aircraft transmitting an emergency squawk to
confirm, is going to get perhaps only a few alternative responses:

- the pilot responds with "'Center X', thats a negative on the 'x'
squawk, we're good here, please confirm correct squawk, thanks for
the heads up "aircraft x'"

- the controller gets no response, which is an indication as to a
problem.

- an unusual response occurs, which again is an indication as to a
problem.

now, just before people go off on a tangent that the pilot could have
a gun to his head and is lectured on how to respond, controllers are
pretty adept at working things out for themselves. a controller can
pretty much figure out if you have a problem with something from vocal
cues. furthermore pilot are pretty adept at dealing with problems,
there was one instance during a hijack that the pilots keyed the mic
during the hijackers vocal outbursts in the cockpit so not only could
the control center hear, but also it was on the tapes. thats not
mentioning the basic issue of has the aircraft deviated from the
flight plan, has it changed heading or altitude ?

listening to the tower tapes of an emergency situation, before all the
other pilots on the frequency changed off to the alternative assigned
frequency, there were a few blind transmissions from other pilots just
quickly and simply "good luck guys, god be with you" though i am not
particularly religious nor sentimental, it's something to give to a
flight crew in a ****ty situation.

as another side note, a friend of mine worked out rather rapidly
during flight that he lost the ability to transmit, could recieve
fine, but not transmit. which of course led him to input 7600
transponder code. the controller obviously came back to attempt to
make communication (bear in mind the controller only knows its lost
comms) and at the controllers call attempts, he hit ident. the
controller pretty much worked out rather rapidly, that the pilot could
hear and not talk, and so an easy day was had by all, as the
controller issued him with vectors, confirming by replying with the
ident.

so, after considering the above, is it more appropriate to say 7 words
and confirm the situation, or go all out into full blown emergency
situation. presence of mind yes. berk, no.


Has it occurred that just maybe, here and there, a hijacker just might
not notice the transponder code was changed?

which is irrelevant either way. if it hasnt been changed he will
continue with his plan, if it has, he will continue with his plan. but
the ability remains to provide a non verbal indication of an emergency
situation.


Mercuns just love to screw up the admin way.

hardly.



Graham