Obsolete weapons

Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

Such mufflers are rather expensive, of course, and I can
understand that poor armies, resistance fighters and such
can't afford them. But to hi-tech armies that actually are
currently engaged in FIBUA, like the US one, damaging the
hearing of its soldiers seems much less affordable than
getting another piece of fancy kit.

And it's not just about hearing protection. A soldier
with his ears ringing after eg fireing his weapon within
a confined space without hearing protection, will have
immediately, but temporarily, much degraded hearing. And
a soldier subject to a very loud noise, like a nearby
explosion, may loose his hearing immediately and completely
for some time. Thus, I'd assume that active mufflers would
enhance the ability to sustain FIBUA, much for the same
reasons that non-active hearing protection, like simple
plugs, might impair the ability to do FIBUA, at least initially,
ie before the soldiers being subject to damaging noise levels.

Moreover, shouldn't practically all modern military helmets
be designed to be compatible with low-profile ear cups,
and vice versa? So why not use them?

Not only do electronic ear mufflers allow non-damaging
sounds to pass, but the amplification can be adjusted, so
that quiet sounds are enhanced. Coupled to a directonal
microphone (and especially with a parabolic antenna), even
very quiet sounds can be heard over considerable distances,
which could sometimes, in special circumstances, be useful.

Plugging one's radio output to the ear muffs, the voice
com will be much easier to hear in a noisy environment, as
the mufflers can be used to cut the background noise. In a
quiet environment, stealthiness might improve slightly too,
as even less received voice com would escape the muffs than
a simple unshielded head-set.

Or is there somehting that I miss? Is, after all, some
essential information lost when the sound passes through
the artificial, but hopefully hi-fi, electronics before
reaching the ear? The muffs do conserve stereophonic
(directional) info of course, but is there eg problems
due to the disparity between the artificial sound from
the muffs vs the sound propagating through the bones?
That one can't adapt to with training?

"M" *@*.* wrote in message
...
Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

Trying to wear ear muffs under a kevlar helmet would be a bit of a chore,
for one. I'd guess that some sort of hearing enhancement and noise
suppression system is included in the Army's various future soldier
equipment research efforts now underway, but the biggest stumbling block to
all of these new systems (to include personal HUD's, etc.) right now is
*power*, and your muffs just add to that--another power-demanding device.
Many Army leaders have identified the need for lightweight, long-lasting
batteries/power supplies as being the biggest single hurdle we have to get
across if we are going to see "robosoldier" type systems go beyond the R&D
effort to actual fielding; right now we are just not there yet.

Brooks

snip

In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" writes:

"M" *@*.* wrote in message
...
Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

Trying to wear ear muffs under a kevlar helmet would be a bit of a chore,
for one. I'd guess that some sort of hearing enhancement and noise
suppression system is included in the Army's various future soldier
equipment research efforts now underway, but the biggest stumbling block to
all of these new systems (to include personal HUD's, etc.) right now is
*power*, and your muffs just add to that--another power-demanding device.
Many Army leaders have identified the need for lightweight, long-lasting
batteries/power supplies as being the biggest single hurdle we have to get
across if we are going to see "robosoldier" type systems go beyond the R&D
effort to actual fielding; right now we are just not there yet.

The size of the muffs is a problem as well. If I'm shooting a small
rifle, like an M-16 or Mini-14, the shell of the muff is resting on
the stock, and all of the sound goes to my right ear (and jaw) by this
direct contact. No amount of noise-cancelling gizmos can fix that.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"M" *@*.* wrote in message
...
Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

Trying to wear ear muffs under a kevlar helmet would be a bit of a chore,
for one. I'd guess that some sort of hearing enhancement and noise
suppression system is included in the Army's various future soldier
equipment research efforts now underway, but the biggest stumbling block to
all of these new systems (to include personal HUD's, etc.) right now is
*power*, and your muffs just add to that--another power-demanding device.
Many Army leaders have identified the need for lightweight, long-lasting
batteries/power supplies as being the biggest single hurdle we have to get
across if we are going to see "robosoldier" type systems go beyond the R&D
effort to actual fielding; right now we are just not there yet.


I've been using Peltor electronic ears for over a year and they work great,
but they are too big for some applications.
OTOH, I have seen the same principle in a hearing-aid sized device that
fits into the ear with custom earpieces.
These electronic ears don't seem to clip too much off the normal hearing,
just the peaks.

I did a program the year before last that needed to use LiMnO2 and
LiSO2 batteries. Found out that the US Army is the world's biggest
user of batteries.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

In article ,
(Harry Andreas) wrote:


I did a program the year before last that needed to use LiMnO2 and
LiSO2 batteries. Found out that the US Army is the world's biggest
user of batteries.


In other words, assault is impossible without battery.

Howard Berkowitz wrote:
In article ,
(Harry Andreas) wrote:


I did a program the year before last that needed to use LiMnO2 and
LiSO2 batteries. Found out that the US Army is the world's biggest
user of batteries.



In other words, assault is impossible without battery.

"The scramble to find batteries and get them to troops fighting in
Operation Iraqi Freedom is leading to a policy review of
non-rechargeable batteries, as well as an examination of alternative
power sources, such as fuel cells and solar panels.

Inadequate inventories of military batteries almost led U.S. forces to
cease operations or alter tactics during Operation Iraqi Freedom. But
several U.S. manufacturers helped avert a potential crisis by slowly
replenishing stocks of the non-rechargeable BA 5990 battery, said a Navy
official.

Navy Capt. Clark Driscoll, the Defense Contract Management Agency
liaison to the Joint Staff, said lack of funding had left the inventory
of BA 5590s in “bad shape for a long time.”

The BA 5590 is the military’s most widely used portable power source,
operating a variety of communications devices.

“We literally [came] within days of running out of these batteries—where
major combat operations would either have ceased or changed in their
character because of the lack of battery support,” Driscoll said in
remarks to the Tri-Service Power Expo, in Norfolk, Va."

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o...le.cfm?id=1190

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

"M" *@*.* wrote in message
...
Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which
means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later
on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

Trying to wear ear muffs under a kevlar helmet would be a bit of a
chore,
for one. I'd guess that some sort of hearing enhancement and noise
suppression system is included in the Army's various future soldier
equipment research efforts now underway, but the biggest stumbling block
to
all of these new systems (to include personal HUD's, etc.) right now is
*power*, and your muffs just add to that--another power-demanding
device.
Many Army leaders have identified the need for lightweight, long-lasting
batteries/power supplies as being the biggest single hurdle we have to
get
across if we are going to see "robosoldier" type systems go beyond the
R&D
effort to actual fielding; right now we are just not there yet.


I've been using Peltor electronic ears for over a year and they work
great,
but they are too big for some applications.
OTOH, I have seen the same principle in a hearing-aid sized device that
fits into the ear with custom earpieces.
These electronic ears don't seem to clip too much off the normal hearing,
just the peaks.

I did a program the year before last that needed to use LiMnO2 and
LiSO2 batteries. Found out that the US Army is the world's biggest
user of batteries.

Not a bit surprising. Every company level supply room I ever used or visited
had a full size refrigerator which was to be used for battery storage (and
of course for the supply sergeants lunch, etc...). Radios used the lithium
batteries, and you'd be surprised at the number of plain ol' D-cells a unit
required, to operate everything from the landlines (TA-312's) and
switchboard to the ubiquitous flashlights. I understand the R&D folks are
really pushing for lightweight fuel cells to take over a lot of the load in
the not-too-distant future.

Brooks


--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

M *@*.* wrote:

Paul J. Adam
Built Up Areas, we aren't necessarily just fighting there) which means
a lot of voice communication: it's hard enough to hear shouted
commands from downstairs or around a corner as is, without ear plugs
in place. So, you risk ringing ears and partial HF deafness later on,
in order to keep control of your fireteam during the action.

Why on Earth aren't active (electronic) ear mufflers used
nowadays? Like many hunters and shooters have done for
quite some time.

[snip]

I assume you're talking about the Bose noise canceling headsets.

They could be good for that purpose, but not in all environments.

The regular headset costs $300. The aviation headset costs $1,000.

Cautions and Advisories:

From the Aviation Headset X Owner's Guide:
http://www.bose.com/controller;jsessionid=BviC3pLtj1xkevlZm7b8o4e9223Y aghwnSATt5v2E22zwc8dgVnj!-373760557!1879924776?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT &product=headsetx_headset_inthebox&linksource=prod uctnav_txt_inthebox&pageName=/home_entertainment/headphones_headsets/headsets/headset_x/features.jsp
(mind the wrap)
Click on 'Owner's Guide'.

For the Quiet Comfort headsets:
http://www.bose.com/controller;jsessionid=BviC3pLtj1xkevlZm7b8o4e9223Y aghwnSATt5v2E22zwc8dgVnj!-373760557!1879924776?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT &product=qc2_headphones_inthebox&linksource=produc tnav_txt_inthebox&pageName=/home_entertainment/headphones_headsets/headphones/qc2/photos.jsp
(mind the wrap)
Click on 'Owner's Guide'.

Both warn that familiar sounds may have an unfamiliar character when using
the headphones. Also, the Quiet Comfort Owner's Guide specifically warns
against using the headphones while driving on a public road or where the
inability to hear outside sounds may present a danger to the user or
others.

That said, I can easily see a use for the aviation headsets in aircraft,
tanks and other armored vehicles. I don't know whether training alone
would be enough for ground troops in all environments.

If you let some outside sound through, the system would have to be designed
to digitally filter the sounds of gun fire. It's possible - I've seen
audio noise reduction systems (dbx, IIRC) that effectively filtered only
the transient noise (clicks, pops, etc.) from vinyl recordings. The
question is would you want to do that if recognizing those sounds and being
able to place them in your field of hearing could be the difference between
life and death in a firefight? In that case, simple attenuation may be the
better solution.

Moreover, shouldn't practically all modern military helmets
be designed to be compatible with low-profile ear cups,
and vice versa? So why not use them?

Good idea for a basic field helmet.

Not only do electronic ear mufflers allow non-damaging
sounds to pass, but the amplification can be adjusted, so
that quiet sounds are enhanced. Coupled to a directonal
microphone (and especially with a parabolic antenna), even
very quiet sounds can be heard over considerable distances,
which could sometimes, in special circumstances, be useful.

Again, useful in some circumstances. Long-range surveillance, for example.

| George Ruch
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"

"George Ruch" wrote in message
...

If you let some outside sound through, the system would have to be
designed
to digitally filter the sounds of gun fire. It's possible - I've seen
audio noise reduction systems (dbx, IIRC) that effectively filtered only
the transient noise (clicks, pops, etc.) from vinyl recordings. The
question is would you want to do that if recognizing those sounds and
being
able to place them in your field of hearing could be the difference
between
life and death in a firefight? In that case, simple attenuation may be
the
better solution.

Yes.
You can't just arbitrarily clip the power of a wave form very much
and leave it a recognizable sound. There has to be a proportional
reduction of each part for it to remain the same sound. And if
you want to be able to judge distances by sounds you have to suppress
the not too loud sounds as well.
Simply blanking out moments of excess volume would leave the
troops walking deafly around corners in to firing muzzles.

Perhaps you could substitute a tone that changed in frequency
based on the noise level to let the user know there's loud noises about.

"John Keeney" wrote:


"George Ruch" wrote in message
.. .

[...]
The question is would you want to do that if recognizing those sounds and
being able to place them in your field of hearing could be the difference
between life and death in a firefight? In that case, simple attenuation
may be the better solution.

Yes.
You can't just arbitrarily clip the power of a wave form very much
and leave it a recognizable sound. [...]
Simply blanking out moments of excess volume would leave the
troops walking deafly around corners in to firing muzzles.

Perhaps you could substitute a tone that changed in frequency
based on the noise level to let the user know there's loud noises about.

Possible, but with everything else going on (HUDs, data links, etc.) we're
quickly entering the realm of Heinlein's powered suits from _Starship
Troopers_ (the original book, not the movie). There's a description in the
book a system that would make a fighter pilot feel right at home.

I have a copy around here somewhere. I'll dig it out when I can.

| George Ruch
| "Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"