Flaps/No flaps...practical difference??

JS wrote on 8/14/2019 3:27 PM:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 3:03:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Looking like “no flap� for sure. Lots of great responses. Appreciate them all. Words like “simple�, “predictable “ and “sweet handling� are what I hoped to hear.

Are you going for the H201 Libelle, still one of the top gliders in all those categories?
Kempton did a 1000km triangle in his 201B out of Tonopah, a western US (from OP) site.
Jim

The newer gliders have far better crash protection than a Libelle. Much as I liked
my H301 Libelle in the '80s, I would not fly one now. Go for the newer ones.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Originally Posted by 6PK

I don't think so...
The Libelle in the right hands will keep up if not out climb anything in it's class....period.
BTW presently I fly a DG but I did own a 201once...

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "in the right hands". My first glider was a share in a Cobra 15 (SZD 36A)and I was never out climbed by any early glass including Libelles and ASW 15s

I was only 18 when I owned it, and to be honest was not up against the best pilots out there, but it's more about the loose nut behind the wheel (stick)

Oh yeah, not to forget the reason for this thread. I like flaps and in recent years my rides have been a Ventus a and a Nimbus 3D. I would have no problem having something without flaps especially something as cool as a D2c. The sheer joy of being airborne doing my best to be making like a bird doesn't depend on flaps or span

:-) Colin

Originally Posted by

For simple long pleasure flights in the western US or for the rare flights in the Alps would I notice any real PRACTICAL difference between a Discus 2c and other flapped 18m ships? I have NO interest in competition. Thanks

"

Originally Posted by Brett

I have about 500 hours in a D2C (18m). And a number of 18m flapped gliders since. The D2C is a beautiful sailplane to fly and very competitive. If you fly under 100kts it gives very little away to a V2cx.
I had no problems towing full of water or landing short. Very docile handling.
AND it will easily out-climb a Libelle.
I highly recommend it for your type of flying.

Brett

Brett has flown national comps in Omarama NZ in his D2c when he had it and was very competitive in 18m flying wave tasks, winning a day here and there.

He's now flying a JS3 via a JS1 and has been to the worlds. I respect his opinion and my own experience of flying against the D2c in my Ventus a and Nimbus 3D leaves me in no doubt that it would deliver in the circumstances you describe

:-) Colin

JS has a point about towing without flaps. The common call is to tell the tow pilot you are full of water. If you are the only standard glider on the field and the tow pilot has a flapped ship, you find yourself mushing off the runway. Give a speed for the tow pilot. (still picking crap out of my shorts.)

If cross country flight is a part of your plans I don't understand why landing off field would not be a large part of the flaps/no flaps decision?

Using flaps can get you into a field safely vs overshooting. I can touchdown and stop without brakes on a grass strip (tail skid ) in 450' with an ASW 20a max positive flap setting . The stall speed is down to 36kts so even if I hit something it will be a considerably slower speed .

Dry the stall speeds are the same, Discus 36kts, so I don't really understand what the extra workload buys you here.

I was talking about stall speed wet.

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 5:43:09 PM UTC-7, Delta8 wrote:
The stall speed is down to 36kts so even if I hit something it will be a considerably slower speed

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 5:43:09 PM UTC-7, Delta8 wrote:
If cross country flight is a part of your plans I don't understand why
landing off field would not be a large part of the flaps/no flaps
decision?

Using flaps can get you into a field safely vs overshooting. I can
touchdown and stop without brakes on a grass strip (tail skid ) in 450'
with an ASW 20a max positive flap setting . The stall speed is down to
36kts so even if I hit something it will be a considerably slower speed


Many Moons ago flying in a contest out of Fairfield, PA, flying an ASW20a- My only option at the time was a college soccer field. I flew one 360 to scope it out. With full flaps and judicial use of dive breaks the 20 comes down like a helicopter. I chose the diagonal and was stopped with room to spare.


--
Delta8

Having flown a lot both ASW20 and D2, I would not try to land one glider in a place I would not land the other as well.

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 9:24:25 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
Having flown a lot both ASW20 and D2, I would not try to land one glider in a place I would not land the other as well.

Ditto - ASW20, Discus 2 and Ventus 2bx experience under my belt. I have never felt there was a place I could land one of the flapped ships and not the D2.

(although the "Jesus" flap setting of the earlier ASW 20s was interesting!)

Mike

Originally Posted by Mike the Strike

(although the "Jesus" flap setting of the earlier ASW 20s was interesting!)

Mike

I used them every flight . My trailer is halfway down a 2000' strip and not wanting use a tow vehicle more than necessary . Spoilers in at 40' and flare at 20' seems to work well. The angle of descent is 4 to 1 .
I see why they did away with that position in later models , if you decide to move up a setting below 200' between any wind gradient and higher stall speed you're in trouble .