Bush AWOL Story - New theory comes to light

"Tempest" wrote in message
om...
zepp wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:19:08 GMT, "David Hartung"
wrote:


"Tempest" wrote in message
...

You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been
collaborated, right?

I am aware that there are discrepancies between Clarke's book and some
of
his other actions and writings.

Dave's going to cling desperately to GOP skirts, no matter how foolish
he looks.

It's worked for him so far.

Too bad it's shot his credibility all to hell.

And now for a current event Frist is about to burn Clarke for perjury.

"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:59:07 -0500,
Kevin Brooks attempted to say .....


"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 25 Mar 2004 22:16:30 GMT,
BUFDRVR attempted to say .....

...and if he had, it would be in his records (which have already
been
released), clearly and unequivocally.

Since it is not, it's hogwash.

Why would an ANG unit, in the old Air Defense Command, have a SIOP
comitment?

I think the storys hogwash from that agle.


They may have had the old Genie rockets ?

IIRC the F-101's here "may" have had them at one point.

Nah, his unit was never active as an interceptor unit with the F-101;
purely
a training role. Its last alert duties were performed in the Deuce.



I thought the F102's were wired for Geine also ?

Nope. They carried the AIM 4 and AIM 26 model Falcons, but no Genies. Genie
was carried by (IIRC) F-89, F-101, and F-106; ISTR hearing that some F-4's
were also wired to carry them, but never did operationally as the other's
did. The Deuce's nuclear round was the AIM 26A, which was completely retired
from service by 1972.

Brooks



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:35:45 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

Yeah. Source for the date when drug testing became a standard feature? I
went through pages and pages on Google trying to find a date for the
initiation of military drug testing--one source indicated 1980, another
alluded to 1974. Nothing else more concrete. No statistics for drug testing
results in the military until 1979. Odd, huh? Can you do better?

Who needs drug testing to find out Bush was using?
"When pressed by the national media during the 2000 presidential
campaign, Bush said he quit drinking in 1986 and hadn't used any
illegal drugs since 1974."

I remember drug testing coming in stages. I don't remember anything
about drug testing around 1972 and then I was out of the mainstream AF
until around 1976. At first it was first term enlisted. Then something
like enlisted under age 30. Then everyone which might have been the
1980 date. Only thing I remember real good is the one troop around
1977 was getting hit with "random" drug testing every month for quite
some time. He took it in stride and everyone had a good laugh over his
every month "random" testing.

In article ,
on 26 Mar 2004 14:34:54 GMT,
Republican Double Standard attempted to say
......

Chad Irby wrote in news:AOM8c.344123$Po1.263958
@twister.tampabay.rr.com:

In article ,
Tempest wrote:

Let's be real here.

If we were being "real," this whole silly story would have died about
four years back.


Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical
importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up for a
drug test all "ancient history"?

Turn that around....

--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Tempest wrote:
You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been
collaborated, right?

ROFL. Great word choice.


Jeff

"Republican Double Standard" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
:


"Republican Double Standard" wrote in
message .4...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
:


"Republican Double Standard" wrote in
message . 1.4...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
:


"Republican Double Standard" wrote
in message
. 1.4...
Chad Irby wrote in
news:AOM8c.344123$Po1.263958 @twister.tampabay.rr.com:

In article ,
Tempest wrote:

Let's be real here.

If we were being "real," this whole silly story would have
died about four years back.


Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of
critical importance

Becuase his statement, based upon what was proven to be
horsecrap (i.e, the "Winter Soldier Investigation") is a
documented fact.

but Bush AWOL

Unsubstantiated (despite repeated efforts by many to prove it);
there is a fifference between a fact and an unsubstantiated
claim.


Actually, the refutations are unsubstantiated.

Thank goodness you are not responsible for justice in this nation;
I presume your approach is "guilty until proven innocent"?

Signed progress report from his CO and a denial of transfer request
from personel headquarters. Nothing offered in refutation of these
official documents. Find me a court in this nation where that's not a
closed case.

Any of them. The progress report from the CO you refer to is nullified
by his performance of ET, much of which is documented (amazingly
enough, giventhe intervening thirty year period). That transfer
request you keep trotting out is a big ol' red herring--meaningless.
He has never claimed to have received the transfer, and the reason he
instead went the ET route is because he was not approved for the
transfer. There is NOTHING there for him to be convicted *of*, by any
courts martial board.

I personally know of several national guardsmen who were convicted of
being AWOL or desertion during the vietnam era. They should hire you as
their lawyer. Who knew that you could just walk away from your duty, not
be seen by anyone except a dentist for 12 months, and then claim it was
"ET" and all is well.

Idiot. He would not have been able to see that dentist if he was not in a
duty status. Add to that the eyewitness account of the gent who came forward
a couple of months back, *and* the fact that he received an Honorable
Discharge, and you can put that little puppy to rest. You "personally" know,
huh? Something tells me that your "personal" knowledge of things military,
much less the Guard, is a bit on the short side.


For an active duty guardsman to go on reserve duty, they need to have it
approved by personel headquarters.

What in tarnation are you talking about, "active duty Guardsman"? You think
he was a Title X FTM member? You are making it ever more clear every time
you open your trap that you don't KNOW anything about the Guard.

Bush's request was denied on the basis
of his having active duty days remaining.

"Active duty days remaining"? You are wandering further and further away
from reality here. I *think* I know what you are TRYING to get at with this
angle, but you are doing such a marvelous job of massacring the actual
situation, thus again proving you don't understand the situation, that I am
going to let you flounder on in your ignorance. But you are danged committed
to hold Bush guilty--in spite of your own OBVIOUS lack of understanding of
what you are accusing him of? LOL!

But hey - you just say "it's a
red herring" and it's all good.

Look up "equivalent training"--if you know so many Guardsmen, as you have
claimed, you should be able to get the definition rather quickly. For extra
credit, come back and tell us the difference between ET and split assembly
training. God spare us from folks like you who are so inherently ignorant of
what you are trying to condemn the man for allegedly having done, or not
done...

I mean, why would anyone need the
approval of their superiors before bailing their duty for a year?

You mean, like that guy who ET'd with our HQ for months, and then found
himself getting an OER that indicated he had been AWOL because (a) his
readiness NCO screwed the pooch in processing the paperwork we sent them,
and (b) the commander one level up never KNEW the guy was ET'ing? H'mmm...

At
least some people have tried to argue that he eventually did get transfer
approval - although there is no documentation for it. You're the first
I've heard claim that active duty guardsmen can just disapprear without
approval and it's all good.

Idiot (again). Performing ET is not "disappearing". The failure of a
squadron commander (or battalion commander for us ground type pukes) to know
how each and every one of his officers had performed such ET is not unknown,
as the case of that guy I mentioned above points out.

I love it when guys like you climb on your high horse and set forth to
pillory someone over something for which you have no grasp whatsover. You
need to go back to those "several" Guardsmen and get a bit of basic
education before you come out swinging--keep you from falling on your ass
quite as much.

Brooks

"Jeff Crowell" wrote in message
...
Tempest wrote:
You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been
collaborated, right?

ROFL. Great word choice.

And now Frist is moving to unseal Clarke's sworn Congressional testamony
that is in conflict with Clarke's sworn 9-11 committee testamony. Clarke is
toast.

Will Clarke's collaborators in the Kerry campaign go down too?

"Republican Double Standard" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in
:


"Republican Double Standard" wrote in
message . 1.4...
Chad Irby wrote in
news
In article ,
Republican Double Standard wrote:

Why is that Kerry's statements to congress in 1971 are of critical
importance, but Bush AWOL/Desertion/HRP failure/failure to show up
for a drug test all "ancient history"?

Because there are documents and witnesses to *support* the Kerry
story, but all of the documents and witnesses *disprove* the Bush
story.


Well, in fairness, there is a dentist who can corroborate Bush's
presence at Danelly at least one day in that year. Unfortunately,
Bush's transfer
to
Dannelly was rejected.

Meaningless. He did not require a transfer in order to perform ET with

What? He didn't need a transfer order in order to transfer his active
duty? Then why did other guardsmen get court martialled for
"transfering" without orders?

Are you dumber than a stump, or what? What about the clause, "...in order to
perform ET" is it that you are having a problem grasping? Geeze.

Brooks

In article ,
on Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:10:12 -0500,
Kevin Brooks attempted to say .....


"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:59:07 -0500,
Kevin Brooks attempted to say .....


"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 25 Mar 2004 22:16:30 GMT,
BUFDRVR attempted to say .....

...and if he had, it would be in his records (which have already
been
released), clearly and unequivocally.

Since it is not, it's hogwash.

Why would an ANG unit, in the old Air Defense Command, have a SIOP
comitment?

I think the storys hogwash from that agle.


They may have had the old Genie rockets ?

IIRC the F-101's here "may" have had them at one point.

Nah, his unit was never active as an interceptor unit with the F-101;
purely
a training role. Its last alert duties were performed in the Deuce.



I thought the F102's were wired for Geine also ?

Nope. They carried the AIM 4 and AIM 26 model Falcons, but no Genies. Genie
was carried by (IIRC) F-89, F-101, and F-106; ISTR hearing that some F-4's
were also wired to carry them, but never did operationally as the other's
did. The Deuce's nuclear round was the AIM 26A, which was completely retired
from service by 1972.

Thanks,



--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

: On the other hand, the "smart" people like Clinton and Gore spent
: eight years *not* doing anything about the terror problem, yet the
: "dumb" Bush is supposed to have fixed it in eight months...

you call strategic bombing

Uhh...can you name the "strategic" target Clinton ordered struck?

how about capturing, trying, and convicting those responsible for the
original WTC attack in '93

Crediting Clinton for that is like crediting Bush for the capture of Eric
Rudolph.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"