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#11
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How do I fly this approach?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes: You did it wrong about every way possible. Okay. Please describe the right way ... and provide references. First, by what authority did you descend 700 feet flow the MEA for V-187 simply because you were within 25 miles of AST? The MEA is 5,000 all the way to AST VOR. That is basic chart reading. The plate gives the MSA within a 25-nm radius. Once I was within the 25-nm radius, I could safely descend to the MSA, and I did so, because it facilitated entering the approach. You must think you are in Canada. MSAs are emergency altitudes only in the U.S. Then, when you turn around at about 12 miles and headed north you departed protected airspace. I'm not sure what you mean by protected airspace. Once I was clear of the Seattle Class B, the rest of the flight was conducted entirely in Class E airspace, right up to landing. Airspace protected from obstacles. The 19 DME arc is available only to non-radar arrivals on on V-27 (R-328) from the northwest or V-27 (R-166) from the south. For any other arrival the approach begins at AST via the feeder route to KARPEN, then the procedure turn. Okay. How do you know this? Explain where and how it is documented on the plate, or where it is documented elsewhere, so that I can look it up. Chief counsel's November, 1994 legal ruling on use of IAP's in non-radar conditions. It is available on Summit's Aviation Reference Library: The letter states in part: "You also ask whether a Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) arc initial approach segment can be substituted for a published IAF along any portion of the published arc. A DME arc cannot be substituted for a published IAF along a portion of the published arc." |
#12
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How do I fly this approach?
Sam Spade writes:
You must think you are in Canada. MSAs are emergency altitudes only in the U.S. Even if I grant this (the FARs mention it but do not define it), how would I then determine the minimum altitude when moving from the airway to the DME arc? The airway MEA applies only on the airway, which I had left. The sectional MEF for the quadrant in which I was operating was 1100 feet below the MSA. If I'm off-airway, and not within an area for which a MSA is published, how do I determine my minimum instrument altitude? If the MEA on the airway had been 14,000 feet, how would I get from that altitude to the appropriate altitude to capture the ILS glide slope in the distance available to me? Airspace protected from obstacles. By remaining at or above the MSA, I was protected from obstacles. This is true whether an emergency existed or not. Chief counsel's November, 1994 legal ruling on use of IAP's in non-radar conditions. It is available on Summit's Aviation Reference Library: The letter states in part: "You also ask whether a Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) arc initial approach segment can be substituted for a published IAF along any portion of the published arc. A DME arc cannot be substituted for a published IAF along a portion of the published arc." I have the letter in front of me, but I do not see the relevance of it. Explain how it applies here. I also don't see any indication of feeder routes on the IAP plate. Can you point these indications out to me? I'll ask again: Describe exactly how I should have flown this, and explain why, step by step. |
#13
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How do I fly this approach?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes: You must think you are in Canada. MSAs are emergency altitudes only in the U.S. Even if I grant this (the FARs mention it but do not define it), how would I then determine the minimum altitude when moving from the airway to the DME arc? The airway MEA applies only on the airway, which I had left. The sectional MEF for the quadrant in which I was operating was 1100 feet below the MSA. If I'm off-airway, and not within an area for which a MSA is published, how do I determine my minimum instrument altitude? If the MEA on the airway had been 14,000 feet, how would I get from that altitude to the appropriate altitude to capture the ILS glide slope in the distance available to me? Airspace protected from obstacles. By remaining at or above the MSA, I was protected from obstacles. This is true whether an emergency existed or not. Chief counsel's November, 1994 legal ruling on use of IAP's in non-radar conditions. It is available on Summit's Aviation Reference Library: The letter states in part: "You also ask whether a Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) arc initial approach segment can be substituted for a published IAF along any portion of the published arc. A DME arc cannot be substituted for a published IAF along a portion of the published arc." I have the letter in front of me, but I do not see the relevance of it. Explain how it applies here. I also don't see any indication of feeder routes on the IAP plate. Can you point these indications out to me? I'll ask again: Describe exactly how I should have flown this, and explain why, step by step. If you don't see the relevance of the letter and you don't understand MSAs, then just go play with yourself. You are up to the same bull**** game. |
#14
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How do I fly this approach?
Classic example of Anthony thinking that by reading something (although not
understanding) he somehow gains expertise, which is of course not the case. His questions and responses clearly demonstrate his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the system works, as well as how to fly instrument procedures. Perhaps he should go back to asking about the location of the ejection seat handle in a Baron. |
#15
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How do I fly this approach?
Viperdoc wrote:
Classic example of Anthony thinking that by reading something (although not understanding) he somehow gains expertise, which is of course not the case. His questions and responses clearly demonstrate his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the system works, as well as how to fly instrument procedures. Perhaps he should go back to asking about the location of the ejection seat handle in a Baron. It all goes beyond his inability and unwillingness to learn. He displays a profound personality defect by the need to ask for technical help then attacking those who try to help. I don't know why the nut house permits him access to the Internet. |
#16
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How do I fly this approach?
Given his history, it's no wonder why he can't find a job in either the US
or France, yet he only blames others and never takes responsbility himself. |
#17
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How do I fly this approach?
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... Viperdoc wrote: Classic example of Anthony thinking that by reading something (although not understanding) he somehow gains expertise, which is of course not the case. His questions and responses clearly demonstrate his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the system works, as well as how to fly instrument procedures. Perhaps he should go back to asking about the location of the ejection seat handle in a Baron. It all goes beyond his inability and unwillingness to learn. He displays a profound personality defect by the need to ask for technical help then attacking those who try to help. I don't know why the nut house permits him access to the Internet. I don't know why you feed the troll then wonder why he keeping popping up. Matt B. |
#18
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How do I fly this approach?
Tom S. wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... Viperdoc wrote: Classic example of Anthony thinking that by reading something (although not understanding) he somehow gains expertise, which is of course not the case. His questions and responses clearly demonstrate his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the system works, as well as how to fly instrument procedures. Perhaps he should go back to asking about the location of the ejection seat handle in a Baron. It all goes beyond his inability and unwillingness to learn. He displays a profound personality defect by the need to ask for technical help then attacking those who try to help. I don't know why the nut house permits him access to the Internet. I don't know why you feed the troll then wonder why he keeping popping up. Matt B. Because I mistakenly thought he was asking some quasi-legitimate questions. Or, perhaps I just wanted to rub his face in his unending ignorance, not stopping to realize it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with a troll. Shame on me. |
#19
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How do I fly this approach?
On Mar 15, 5:34*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). *I tried to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly. In my case, this is what I did: *I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. *Once I was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. *About 12 nm away from AST, I turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer course. *At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took over. *About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the landing by hand. Was this correct? *I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers towards the east and the procedure turn. *Do I have multiple options for this approach? *Was the way I flew it one of them? *Or what? I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. *But the DME arc had IAFs at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did. There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. Any rated pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to get that clearance? What would YOU do? And provide references. |
#20
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How do I fly this approach?
On Mar 19, 9:42*am, a wrote:
On Mar 15, 5:34*pm, Mxsmanic wrote: Kindly take a look at the ILS runway 26 approach to Astoria (KAST). *I tried to fly this in my sim and I'm not at all sure that I did it correctly. In my case, this is what I did: *I was on V187 from Seattle at 6000. *Once I was within 25 nm of AST, I descended to 4300. *About 12 nm away from AST, I turned roughly north and flew back out to 19 DME from AST, then turned east to follow the 19 DME arc until I was within a few degrees of the localizer course. *At that point I started a turn towards the localizer and armed the autopilot, which captured the localizer and glide slope immediately and took over. *About a mile away from the airport I disengaged the AP and flew the landing by hand. Was this correct? *I'm confused by the references to the NDB and the pointers towards the east and the procedure turn. *Do I have multiple options for this approach? *Was the way I flew it one of them? *Or what? I almost thought that maybe I was supposed to fly to the VOR then outbound to the NDB then make a procedure turn and come back in. *But the DME arc had IAFs at each end so I finally figured I could just come in towards the VOR then fly back out to the arc and finally turn towards the airport, which is what I did. There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about this approach. *Any rated pilot, from 50 miles out at 6000 feet on V187 would not be happy to hear center say "Cleared ILS 26, report to the tower at the outer marker inbound" but would know what to do. It would be the same thing we would do had we lost radio communication and our last clearance was to that airport. Have you any clue as to why we would not be happy to get that clearance? What would YOU do? And provide references.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Apparently I don't understand the question. This approach does not seem to be unusual, and your scenario would not make me unhappy (unless you just don't like doing full approaches). Maurice Givens CSEL, CSES, CMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, AGI, IGI CAP Check Pilot |
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