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#11
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
Hi Frank,
I looked twice at the Peak Battery site but could never find any dimensions. Can you provide the dimensions or a link to that part of the site? When you say that the Peak battery is a lot safer, I'm not all that convinced, because 1) I was never able to ignite the Li-Ion's other than with a hammer, and 2) everyone is flying with Li-Ions, in cell phones, iPaq's, Oudies, Socket Mobile power packs, etc. and I don't hear of those catching on fire, ever. Not to mention all the Li-Ion's sitting on job sites everywhere all night on chargers, if one burned in Seattle I would know about it. But I think that is something for each person to decide and I won't attempt to convince anyone Li-Ion's are safe, just to consider how many they are already flying with. One of the batteries I burned up was from an Ipaq 3950 and it was clear that you Can Not survive such an event without losing the canopy at a minimum. The smoke, not only from the battery but from the plastic case and components goes on for about 90 seconds, is very acrid, think burning tires. The youtube videos don't do it justice, I think because they burn the battery only and not a PDA/PNA at the same time which is where a lot of the smoke comes from. That being said, I would not go to an all Peak Battery solution myself, too much expense. But the $140, 7ah version might be an option for a back-up to a UB12150 VRLA ($40). I wonder what life you would get out of the Peak Battery if you used it only 6 times per year? Brian Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron- Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor as my regular UB1290 (12v 9.0AH SLA), and is considerably lighter. *It is also (according to the company and some independent research) a lot safer in that it won't explode or catch fire when abused. *Lastly, its discharge curve runs between 13.2V fully charged to about 12.5V at end- of-charge, making it a better fit for most avionics. I bought one for my Ventus 2 because I am planning to install a transponder this winter and a FLARM unit next spring, so will need some additional amp-hours. *I plan to run with one SLA and one LiFePo next year, and then get another K2 battery after the end of next season. Frank (TA) |
#12
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
On Nov 12, 8:33*am, sisu1a wrote:
* The Li-Ion battery I ended up with is he http://www.dinodirect.com/Super-9000...ion-Battery-fo... Hope it was worth the read, Other than price, is there a compelling reason to use Li-Ion batteries instead of LiFeP04 batteries like these?http://www.batteryspace.com/128vlife...rypacks.aspx*I know some folks using batteries/chargers from these guys are are quite happy with them... many options at many pricepoints... -Paul Paul, those look really nice. Brian |
#13
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
Frank, I have a problem with those Peak Batteries, the web site
doesn't give enough information. Size, what kind of charger, etc. Maybe you or someone could dig into it a little and report back. I did read the article in Soaring but felt it was thin in places. Brian Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron- Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor Frank (TA) |
#14
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
Brian,
Very interesting post! I've never given a thought to the fact my cell phone and iPAQ batteries were Li-ion. You mention that you ignited a Li-ion with a hammer. That's not very realistic as an in-cockpit trigger, so in your view what might cause a Li-ion battery in a cell phone or a iPAQ (that had been fully charged on the ground) to catch fire? -John On Nov 12, 2:45 pm, brianDG303 wrote: When you say that the Peak battery is a lot safer, I'm not all that convinced, because 1) I was never able to ignite the Li-Ion's other than with a hammer, and 2) everyone is flying with Li-Ions, in cell phones, iPaq's, Oudies, Socket Mobile power packs, etc. and I don't hear of those catching on fire, ever. Not to mention all the Li-Ion's sitting on job sites everywhere all night on chargers, if one burned in Seattle I would know about it. But I think that is something for each person to decide and I won't attempt to convince anyone Li-Ion's are safe, just to consider how many they are already flying with. One of the batteries I burned up was from an Ipaq 3950 and it was clear that you Can Not survive such an event without losing the canopy at a minimum. The smoke, not only from the battery but from the plastic case and components goes on for about 90 seconds, is very acrid, think burning tires. The youtube videos don't do it justice, I think because they burn the battery only and not a PDA/PNA at the same time which is where a lot of the smoke comes from. |
#15
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
On Nov 12, 12:14*am, brianDG303 wrote:
... I was not able to ignite these by any combination of overload, short circuit, or charging abnormality. Clearly an amateur ;-) |
#16
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
... I was
not able to ignite these by any combination of overload, short circuit, or charging abnormality. Clearly an amateur ;-) I think we should pitch in and buy him this shirt: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...ed-asphalt.gif Note- the SunSeeker (http://solar-flight.com/sunseeker/index.html) has a 'battery ejection' system in case of ignition of it's LIon batteries. It's a fancy sting and pulley thing if memory serves, but should release it's incendiary payload in a pinch -hopefully before the rest of the plastic goes all flaming marshmellow...(look out below!) -Paul ps. did you try the exacto trick? (stab deeply w/#11 blade and quickly jump out of way of ensuing focused plasma flame |
#17
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
On Nov 12, 2:54*pm, brianDG303 wrote:
Frank, I have a problem with those Peak Batteries, the web site doesn't give enough information. Size, what kind of charger, etc. Maybe you or someone could dig into it a little and report back. I did read the article in Soaring but felt it was thin in places. Brian Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron- Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor Frank (TA) Brian, The K2 site sells a compatible charger (which btw is also much smaller/ lighter than my older VDC Electronics Battery Minder Plus), and will charge two K2 LiFePo batteries in parallel. Cost for one battery, one charger and shipping to Columbus OH was about $242 US. The combination is much more expensive than my SLA setup. However, when I consider the cost of modifying my battery compartments to accommodate larger batteries, or the potential cost (i.e., my life!) of not having a transponder/FLARM next year, I'm comfortable with the tradeoff ;-). Frank (TA) |
#18
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
I remember fun days working in a lab where colleagues were developing
the "revolutionary" sodium sulfur battery (colloquially referred to as the "fire and brimstone" battery). The chief skill developers learned was how to run fast while wearing asbestos suits and full-face protective helmets. If you've never had to deal with a bucket of burning molten sodium, you've never lived! (Hint - water isn't terribly useful!) You probably wouldn't want any quantity of burning (molten or otherwise) lithium near you or in your glider either. Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table (right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium). MIke |
#19
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table
(right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium). MIke Most smaller Cessnas and the Grob G-103 have magnesium wheels....and I like bananas for the potassium before I fly. ;-) aerodyne |
#20
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a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.
On Nov 13, 7:54*am, wrote:
Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table (right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium). MIke Most smaller Cessnas and the Grob G-103 have magnesium wheels....and I like bananas for the potassium before I fly. ;-) aerodyne Mmmmm radioactive bananas. Darryl |
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