Logging time as safety pilot?

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:KFZSb.2742$IF1.246@fed1read01...

but to act as safety pilot for someone under the hood.. you have to hold at
least a private pilot certificate and be qualified to fly the aircraft

Nope, you just need to be rated in category and class (presuming the aircraft
doesn't need a type rating).

some will state, that if it is a complex aircraft, you need the complex
endorsement, same for high performance, or tail dragger

That is only required if you are going to be pilot in command.

A safety pilot is not necessarily pilot in command.

A guy helping in an aircraft or operation only requiring one pilot is
called a passenger.

Except for about 12 people in the world, all of them here on this board,
everybody would just log the time as PIC.



CFLav8r wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:31:21 GMT, "CFLav8r"
wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

If you acted as safety pilot, and were legally qualified to do so (i.e.
current medical and rated in category & class), then you may log SIC time.

In order to log PIC time, as others are suggesting, you would need to be
qualified to act as PIC in the a/c (i.e. all endorsements, currency
requirements, etc.) and, according to FAA legal counsel, also have had an
agreement with the pilot flying, prior to the flight, that you would be
legally responsible for the flight of the aircraft.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

If you acted as safety pilot, and were legally qualified to do so (i.e.
current medical and rated in category & class), then you may log SIC time.

In order to log PIC time, as others are suggesting, you would need to be
qualified to act as PIC in the a/c (i.e. all endorsements, currency
requirements, etc.) and, according to FAA legal counsel, also have had an
agreement with the pilot flying, prior to the flight, that you would be
legally responsible for the flight of the aircraft.

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Well to clarify, I do have all the requirements met.
I am a private pilot, checked out in the C172SP that we flew and I am
current.
Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to
see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from SFB and
crossed
ahead of our path.).
It is the see and avoid that I believe makes me responsible for the over all
flight path.
Since this was under-the-hood flying and not actual IMC it was also my
responsibility
to decide if the aircraft was under the proper control and to assume control
should I
feel it to be necessary.

David (KORL)

Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from
SFB and
crossed ahead of our path.).
It is the see and avoid that I believe makes me responsible for the over all
flight path.


Nope. Your agreement was you were the eyes outside the aircraft. This does
not make you the "final authority as to the operation of the aircraft". You
are a sensor, not a processor. The other pilot is still responsible for
responding to your input in an appropriate manner. Even if you are compelled
to grab the yoke to prevent an inadvertant customization of the aircraft (which
would fall under the responsiblity as safety pilot), you are still not PIC.

Not by the agreement you describe above.

Jose



--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"CFLav8r" wrote in message
. com...


Well to clarify, I do have all the requirements met.
I am a private pilot, checked out in the C172SP that we flew and I am
current.
Our agreement as safety pilot was that I would be the eyes outside the
aircraft to
see and avoid other aircraft (such as the B727 that took off from SFB and
crossed
ahead of our path.).


Your medical is current too, right?

The question is: If there were an incident or an accident (e.g., bust a TFR,
clip a Class B shelf, fly too low in a congested area with no intention of
landing, etc. etc.) am I going to accept the consequences of PIC
responsibility because I had final authority to prevent these issues? I'm
guessing that since the pilot flying didn't say, "make sure we're above
3000' when we overfly Disney", or something similar, there was no pre-flight
understanding that you were acting PIC. It sounds more like you spotted
traffic and the pilot flying was responsible for maneuvering the aircraft to
avoid it, which is not PIC.

That said, how you log it is up to you, but if you ever need to explain that
log entry, you need an answer/response that includes a concurring statement
from the pilot flying under the hood and your concurrence that you
understood the legal consequences if the FAR was violated during that time.

Just a thought, but in the grand scheme of things total time is important
too.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:31:21 GMT, "CFLav8r"
wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)


the phase of your flying life where logging of time is so important is
when you are accumulating the hours for a higher rating.

if you showed up for an interview with the bulk of your hours toward
the rating as safety pilot time do you think that anyone would take it
seriously?

log the important hours, not the useless stuff.

just be happy in the thought that one of your mates thought enough of
you to invite you along. you might need the same assistance at the
other end of your flying life yourself.

Stealth ( I log tacho time ) Pilot
oz.

the phase of your flying life where logging of time is so important is
when you are accumulating the hours for a higher rating.

The phase of my life is over forty and not interested in a flying career.
I am merely trying to find out what colum to mark the times in.
I am quite aware of what hours I need for my instrument rating that I am
working on
and fully aware that no part of safety pilot will that count towards that.

if you showed up for an interview with the bulk of your hours toward
the rating as safety pilot time do you think that anyone would take it
seriously?

I'm not applying for any jobs.

log the important hours, not the useless stuff.

I try to log every minute in the air as a so-called journal the way Richard
L Collins
has suggested as a great way of keeping track of where you have been
and how you got there. Its in one of his videos from Sportys.

just be happy in the thought that one of your mates thought enough of
you to invite you along. you might need the same assistance at the
other end of your flying life yourself.

My friend could not have made that flight if it wasn't for me.
His other option was to take an instructor with him that would charge
him for his time.
But you are partially right about one thing, I will invite him along whether
I need
his assistance or not.
Because as a pilot I know most of us will use any excuse to fly.
If I were asked to come along on a flight to pickup Brillo pads and we were
flying there, I would always say yes as most of us that love to fly would.

Stealth ( I log tacho time ) Pilot
oz.


David (KORL)

Stealth Pilot wrote:

log the important hours, not the useless stuff.

I'd recommend logging the time. If nothing else, this provides a backup to
the entry in your friend's log. It may also be something you ask later:
when have I been a safety pilot, and for whom?

This is one of the things I learned while diving: logging is as much for the
fun of it as for the tracking of numbers and such.

just be happy in the thought that one of your mates thought enough of
you to invite you along. you might need the same assistance at the
other end of your flying life yourself.

Sigh I know what you mean. I remember a rental checkout once with a CFI
that had lost her medical (for a very serious and ongoing problem,
unfortunately, esp. given that she was barely half my age). I was happy to
be part of the team keeping her in the air. I think I may actually have
rented there only once, but that's the checkout that's still most with me.

A CFI friend recently lost his medical. I need to check on what I can do
with him (dual commercial XCs, perhaps), and I'm sure I'm not the only one
with this plan in mind.

- Andrew

My response is not crossposted as the intial post was, as crossposting
is evil and wrong.

a) I logged a flight where I was safety pilot for a guy getting IFR
current, as PIC time, two or three years ago. However, my ego and/or
conscience won't let me do it again, and were it not so far back in my
logbook as to be really ugly to reverse it, I'd do it. I now think it's
a lame way to log PIC time. It's great experience, and a great help to
the other fellow, but not loggable in (my) good conscience.

b) in my (log)book, Second in Command time is worthless. What's it good
for, really?

Disclaimer: I'm hungry for PIC hours, as I have aspirations to be a
commercial pilot, in order to fulfill my mid-life-crisis-founded need
for an eventual career change. But, safety pilot time doesn't cut the
mustard for me.

Dave Blevins

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:31:21 GMT, "CFLav8r"
wrote:

I recently helped a friend fly to St. Augustine from Orlando.
My question is: Can or should you log the time as safety pilot?
Although I did not actually fly the aircraft, I did handle the radios and
visual guide while my friend flew under the hood.

David (KORL)