Vertica V3?

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:46:11 PM UTC+1, Roel Baardman wrote:
But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the same story for car navigators, no difference.



Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those people to buy a separate device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or similar devices?

Uh, cost? LX9000 is $5500, Oudie2 $650. That's a lot of tows!

I have an Oudie2 because I do NOT want to use my phone for navigation. And I like being able to take it home and practice with it, or experiment with different configurations, or update and checkout new data in the comfort of home.

Since I use an iPhone, I really don't care about Android's "cool features". I guess I've outgrown that phase...;^)

Kirk
66

At 13:46 10 January 2013, Roel Baardman wrote:
But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the
same story for car
navigators, no difference.

Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those
people to buy a separate
device instead of something like an Altair/LX9000 or
similar devices?


Price?
They like the software?

At 14:18 10 January 2013, kirk.stant wrote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:46:11 PM UTC+1,
Roel Baardman wrote:
But still, many want a dedicated device. That's the
same story for car
navigators, no difference.



Then I cannot help but wonder what motivates those
people to buy a
separate device instead of something like an
Altair/LX9000 or similar
devices?

Uh, cost? LX9000 is $5500, Oudie2 $650. That's a lot
of tows!

V2/GG/Oudie Lite + LK8000: $380. Even more tows.

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:29:30 PM UTC+1, wrote:
I have a friend that is using his android phone as his nav computer. He missed scoring a race day because having forgotten to place the phone in "aircraft mode" a call interrupted his IGC trace.

This was indeed an unfortunate problem with XCSoar, but I fixed that last spring (version 6.3.3).

Nowadays, I got a second SIM card for my Streak, to be able to use SkyLines live tracking. Rarely, I get a call during the flight, which is a bit annoying, but it never disrupts XCSoar.

(Note: if that problem still occurs, why doesn't your friend talk to us?)

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:40:30 PM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:
Comparing Windows CE and Android is comparing apples and oranges. They may appear to be equivalent and interchangeable to the end user, but under the skin, they are fundamentally different beasts.

Funny how your first sentence says you can NOT compare Windows CE and Android, and then the rest of your rather long post does EXACTLY THAT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_CE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...ting_system%29



The bottom line is that Windows CE is intended to be utterly stable and reliable. That's a primary design goal.



Android aspires to be all things to all Apps (and "stable"). It's totally pointless to argue (and especially in this forum) whether Windows CE is in fact more stable and reliable than Android, so let's NOT go there.
[...]

Wow, what a load of FUD. The Wikipedia links make your post look like you know what you're writing, but Wikipedia does not back up your claims. Don't say "in fact" when this is just your personal opinion, which you cannot substantiate.

Windows CE deliberately limits functionality and utility to maximize stability and reliability. Android has constantly expanded functionality and utility and in theory that complexity, and frequent revision and extension of the kernel reduces stability and reliability. At the very least, it introduces the possibility of a code defect slipping in; a defect that could possibly lead to a critical flight computer error. The probability of that happening is unquantifiable, but non-zero.

Windows CE has limited functionality because back in the 90ies when it was developed, portable devices did not have enough power for the full-blown Windows. This has nothing to do with maximizing stability/reliability.

Windows CE has been abandoned by Microsoft, that's why it has not been expanded. Before it was abandoned, it was constantly expanded by Microsoft.

Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable. It was old, but not antiquated. Using Windows CE follows a similar proven strategy.

Wow, NASA. That makes Windows CE pretty stable. Oh, stop! You didn't say that NASA uses Windows CE. What was your argument, again? What was the point of mentioning NASA?

I'm not saying that PNA's based on Windows CE are in fact more reliable than those running on Android. Nobody knows. But that's a big part of the engineers' intention.

I do know. I spent many years with both Windows CE and Android. I spent months of my lifetime debugging problems with XCSoar on Windows CE. I found so many bugs and instabilities in Windows CE, it's not funny. These bugs will never be fixed, because Windows CE is abandoned. Android is not bug-free, but compared to Windows CE, it feels like heaven.

Let me sum up your post:

1. one can't compare Android and Windows CE
2. you compare stability of Android vs Windows CE
3. it's pointless to compare stability of Android vs Windows CE, "let's not go there"
4. none of this matter, you don't know, because nobody knows

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:14:36 AM UTC-5, Max Kellermann wrote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:40:30 PM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:

I feel honored to be flamed by Max Kellerman.

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:40:30 PM UTC, son_of_flubber wrote:
Windows CE deliberately limits functionality and utility to maximize stability and reliability. Android has constantly expanded functionality and utility and in theory that complexity, and frequent revision and extension of the kernel reduces stability and reliability. At the very least, it introduces the possibility of a code defect slipping in; a defect that could possibly lead to a critical flight computer error. The probability of that happening is unquantifiable, but non-zero.

...
Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable. It was old, but not antiquated. Using Windows CE follows a similar proven strategy.

An interesting analogy. The number of unmanned spacecraft losses from software issues is nothing short of spectacular, and the Shuttle and Apollo programmes had their share of hazardous software issues during missions.

There's an awful lot of factors that have to come together to create a stable system, and very little substitute for intensive testing under diverse conditions. That's one thing that mass-market Android devices have in spades..

Stability and reliability are primary goals of sensible flight related computing. That's why NASA's Space Shuttle used computers and software long frozen
in decades past. The old stuff was indisputably stable and reliable.

What I have always heard (note: I am not saying this is the actual reason) was that when you use 'old' computers, those computers are less prone to bit-
flipping by radiation from space. Even though such systems are generally built pretty fault tolerant (an odd number of units performing the same task with a
voter behind it, for example) the older chips were fast enough and simply a bit less prone to the bit-flipping.

Yup, cost makes sense. Especially if you add the fact that you can practice with a simulator more easily.

I always saw the remove-ability as a downside, since I thought it would affect the time needed to perform an emergency egress. I have also read about several
mishaps due to PDAs blocking the view to levers (especially in gliders with retractable engine).

Have you ever developed any applications for either one of those platforms? I won't say that Android is the most stable OS ever, but I have to agree with Max that it is faaaar better than WinCE. It starts with GDI memory leaking and ends with buggy serial port drivers on those outdated devices... Android might not be perfect either but at least everything works as documented and is actively maintained.