Why not put an audible variometer in every glider?

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many gliders do not have audible variometers.

In article Martin Gregorie writes:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.

But, why do you need an audio vario to do that?

I learned to soar in a pair of gliders with mechanical varios. One of
them did not have a TE probe. For a while, early on, I considered getting
one of the hang-gliding audio-only varios, but eventually abandoned that
idea.

Much later, when I was out in a higher performance glider, we decided to
turn the volume down on that annoying thing.

Alan

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:36:36 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

Much later, when I was out in a higher performance glider, we decided to
turn the volume down on that annoying thing.

Sounds like your training rooted you in the somewhat less safe habit of looking at the vario needle when you could be scanning for traffic.

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 07:36:36 +0000, Alan wrote:

In article Martin Gregorie
writes:
On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 08:12:00 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

"CFI-Gs largely hold sway over how we equip our trainers. Many CFI-Gs
just want the student to pass the PTS ASAP, and basic skill with a
audible variometer is not part of the PTS."

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I
should think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring
skills would get boring rather fast.

But, why do you need an audio vario to do that?

You don't, but nonetheless all my clubs gliders, both single and two
seat, now have both audio varios and FLARM fitted. The benefit of a good
audio vario is that you can find and utilise a thermal without needing to
look at the thing or taking your eyes off the other gliders in the
thermal. We're a big club, so our airspace gets busy sometimes and
multiply occupied thermals near the field are common, so both instruments
are decidedly worthwhile for their safety aspect.

What set me going was the comment that "Many CFI-Gs just want the student
to pass the PTS ASAP" remark: I'd say that IMO if a student is sent solo
without having being taught the basics of finding, centring and using
thermals safely and efficiently then his CFI-G hasn't done his job
properly.

And, before you ask, I think thermalling basics include being able to
join a multiply occupied thermal, climb in it without upsetting the other
occupants and leave it heading in the right direction without causing any
near misses or frights.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 17:36:04 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I
should think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring
skills would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the
successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their
training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do
that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn
to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is
the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many
gliders do not have audible variometers.

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio
varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put
the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and
putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing
the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and
helping with the DI in the morning?

I should, perhaps add that we use a booking system for training in which
the minimum slot is half a day (one glider + instructor per two students
for the half day). An explicit part of the booked slot is being there to
help with getting the kit out and DIed if you have a morning booking and
being there to help pack the hangar in the evening after an afternoon
booking.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio

varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put

the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and

putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing

the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and

helping with the DI in the morning?


Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:



As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio



varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put



the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and



putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing



the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and



helping with the DI in the morning?





Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.

Paul

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:56:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio
the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and
putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing
the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and
helping with the DI in the morning?

Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.


We've circled back to the original topic question that I posted. Is there really such a stark contrast between UK and USA pilots on this matter? I wonder if it springs from the government regulation of USA gliding by the FAA, whereas UK gliding is "self-regulated" by the BGA.

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:21:45 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:56:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:



On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:



As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio

the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and

putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing

the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and

helping with the DI in the morning?



Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??



And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.





We've circled back to the original topic question that I posted. Is there really such a stark contrast between UK and USA pilots on this matter? I wonder if it springs from the government regulation of USA gliding by the FAA, whereas UK gliding is "self-regulated" by the BGA.

What does the FAA have to do with this all? I don't get it... Just like in the UK, most gliders in Germany and France are club-owned and very well equipped and yes, that included audio varios even back in the 80's when I flew there. Parachutes were mandatory for all seats even back then.
Herb