My Engine Fire!!

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Marty" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Good stuff snipped....

Most aircraft have Halon extinguishers which work well
on such fires.


CJ,
Is there a special exclusion for the use of Halon in planes?
I thought Halon was outlawed or common use and now required special
permitting.
Great stuff tho.

Halon is not outlawed. You cannot produce it, but there are sufficient
stockpiles of the stuff to make fire extinguishers for years.

It is a great example of the idiocy of environmental laws. Bureaucrats
would
rather you burn alive than suffer a miniscule risk of getting cancer 20
years down the road.


Guess I need not worry too much about the 20lb bottle I have then ;-)

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It is a great example of the idiocy of environmental laws. Bureaucrats
would
rather you burn alive than suffer a miniscule risk of getting cancer 20
years down the road.

Actually, it was banned as a ozone-depleter, if I recall correctly. I
suppose that could lead to skin cancer, but most people consider that to be
the least of the concerns with respect to the ozone layer disappearing.

In any case, there are other fire extinguishing agents that work just as
well. Yes, they aren't necessarily as friendly to your airplane, but having
to spend more money after a fire isn't the same kind of thing as making you
"burn alive".

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It is a great example of the idiocy of environmental laws. Bureaucrats
would
rather you burn alive than suffer a miniscule risk of getting cancer 20
years down the road.

Actually, it was banned as a ozone-depleter, if I recall correctly. I
suppose that could lead to skin cancer, but most people consider that to
be
the least of the concerns with respect to the ozone layer disappearing.

In any case, there are other fire extinguishing agents that work just as
well. Yes, they aren't necessarily as friendly to your airplane, but
having
to spend more money after a fire isn't the same kind of thing as making
you
"burn alive".

Are you seriously suggesting that the tiny quantities of halon discharged in
airplane fires will have any appreciable effect on the ozone? What makes you
think the other agents do not have the same or worse environmental effects?

wrote in :

It's 10pm. It's 6 degrees outside. I decide to go flying. I fly an
Cessna 150.

I can hardly imagine going outside in 6 degrees. Heck, I can hardly
imagine 6 degrees.

Your surprise and reactions are reasonable, don't bother worrying about how
you could have reacted differently or sooner. That's the past.

It sounds as though your A&P doesn't think you have any damage. That's
surprising, but great news. It doesn't take much of a carb fire to char
wire insulation or put holes in that thin SCAT tubing. You made the right
decision to wait for an examination.

Now, get the plane go back, have a nice flight, and don't let it worry you.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Having gone through this past winter with a Tanis, I just want to comment on the priming angle.

After being plugged in all night, low of 10f, now 20f, I give the old girl 1 to 1.5 squirts and she starts in 2 blades. Answering
your questions in advance, I have primer on only one cylinder. Once I start to crank, I will pump the throttle once, maybe twice.

Point of all this being, it appears that the Tanis keeps it warm enough that the engine starts about the same as it would on a nice
75 degree summer day.

Mike Z

wrote in message ...

It's 10pm. It's 6 degrees outside. I decide to go flying. I fly an Cessna
150.

The engine has a Tanis preheater. During the pre-flight I notice that the
engine block feel reasonably warm. Everything else looks good.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. No joy. I let it crank for a
reasonable time to clear any flooding and repeat.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. No joy. I let it crank for a
reasonable time to clear any flooding and repeat.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. Backfire. I pause and wonder
"what the heck, it's never done that before." Then I notice a glow
from
under the engine cowling. And smoke. How weird, that's never happen before.
About two nanoseconds later I realize the engine is on FIRE!!!!!

I begin to bail out of the plane. But I cannot get my seatbelt undone. I
say
out loud "calm down", get my seat belt undone, and leave the plane.

About 30 seconds later, watching a bit of glow and smoke come from under my
cowling, I realize that the plane is not going to immediatly explode. I go
back to the plane and look for a fire extinguisher. There is none, but I do
grab my flight bag and run to the car. No fire extiguisher there either.

By now about a minute has gone by. The glow is gone, but the smoke
continues.
I sit and wait. I'd like to open the oil-access door, but I have no idea if
the fire is out and don't want to add any extra oxygen.

Finally, after 5 minutes, I walk to the plane. The cowling is cool to the
touch. I open the oil access door. Everything looks fine. Great! Now I
can go flying.

Er, not. I decide that people who fly after engine compartment fires are
those people who end up on the "How Stupid Was He" columns in my
favorite
flying magazine. I push the plane back in the hanger.

The mechanic says it might be that I over-primed the engine. It also might
be
an accumuation of oil from an oil leak. Everything important seems to be OK
except my pride.

Conclusions:

1) I forgive myself the panic two seconds with the seat belt. Next time I'll
be calmer but it was my first engine fire and I was un-calm for only two
seconds.

2) One should remember the fuel shut-off valve. It's quite out-of-sight, but
this would have been the only time in my whole flying career that it would
have actually been useful.

3) I'm gonna have to reread the "cold weather starting procedure"
section of
the manual.

4) The inside of the cowl is rather hard to see. How the heck is one suppose
to know if there is oil accumulating? Especially since there were no
significant oil drippings onto the hanger floor and the engine was not
consuming oil unreasonably.

5) Fire extinguishers. For this fire it would have made things worse. For a
different fire, it might have made things better. Hmmmmmm.

6) Insurance. The plane is insured, and I can clearly afford the deductable.

That makes many things OK.



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(Account of overpriming and resulting engine fire deleted)

Any of the carburettor mounted below engine Lyc and Continental
engines are prone to this...

I had it happen to me in a 182. The 182 is particularly prone
if the engine starts normally, and you taxi the
aircraft a short distance (say to the fuel island), shut off
the engine, leave it off for a few min, and then restart...

What happens is that the metal induction tubes are still cold
soaked; the short run not being sufficient to heat them. Fuel
evaporates normally in the carb during the engine run, but because
of the induction tubes are cold, the fuel droplets condense
on the cold metal surface, like moisture condenses on a cold
beer glass.

As long as the engine is running, there is sufficient flow
up the induction system to suck the fuel into the cylinders.
If you shut off the engine, the condensed fuel runs back down
through the carburettor, and puddles in the carb air box.
A backfire during the next restart attempt is all it takes
to set the puddle of gas alight.

The admonition in the manual for continuing to crank in an
attempt to suck the fire up into the induction is there for
a reason. Be especially wary of an induction fire on the
second restart if the previous engine run was just a few
min...

MikeM
Skylane '1MM

By any chance did you also pump the throttle a few times?

wrote in message ...
It's 10pm. It's 6 degrees outside. I decide to go flying. I fly an Cessna
150.

The engine has a Tanis preheater. During the pre-flight I notice that the
engine block feel reasonably warm. Everything else looks good.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. No joy. I let it crank for a
reasonable time to clear any flooding and repeat.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. No joy. I let it crank for a
reasonable time to clear any flooding and repeat.

I prime 3 or 5 shots and crank the engine. Backfire. I pause and wonder
"what the heck, it's never done that before." Then I notice a glow
from
under the engine cowling. And smoke. How weird, that's never happen before.
About two nanoseconds later I realize the engine is on FIRE!!!!!

I begin to bail out of the plane. But I cannot get my seatbelt undone. I
say
out loud "calm down", get my seat belt undone, and leave the plane.

About 30 seconds later, watching a bit of glow and smoke come from under my
cowling, I realize that the plane is not going to immediatly explode. I go
back to the plane and look for a fire extinguisher. There is none, but I do
grab my flight bag and run to the car. No fire extiguisher there either.

By now about a minute has gone by. The glow is gone, but the smoke
continues.
I sit and wait. I'd like to open the oil-access door, but I have no idea if
the fire is out and don't want to add any extra oxygen.

Finally, after 5 minutes, I walk to the plane. The cowling is cool to the
touch. I open the oil access door. Everything looks fine. Great! Now I
can go flying.

Er, not. I decide that people who fly after engine compartment fires are
those people who end up on the "How Stupid Was He" columns in my
favorite
flying magazine. I push the plane back in the hanger.

The mechanic says it might be that I over-primed the engine. It also might
be
an accumuation of oil from an oil leak. Everything important seems to be OK
except my pride.

Conclusions:

1) I forgive myself the panic two seconds with the seat belt. Next time I'll
be calmer but it was my first engine fire and I was un-calm for only two
seconds.

2) One should remember the fuel shut-off valve. It's quite out-of-sight, but
this would have been the only time in my whole flying career that it would
have actually been useful.

3) I'm gonna have to reread the "cold weather starting procedure"
section of
the manual.

4) The inside of the cowl is rather hard to see. How the heck is one suppose
to know if there is oil accumulating? Especially since there were no
significant oil drippings onto the hanger floor and the engine was not
consuming oil unreasonably.

5) Fire extinguishers. For this fire it would have made things worse. For a
different fire, it might have made things better. Hmmmmmm.

6) Insurance. The plane is insured, and I can clearly afford the deductable.

That makes many things OK.



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I think one prime is all that is allowed. I finally decided to always
preheat on 31 degree fareineheit days for my carburated engine. It
seems not necessesary, except one prime always works!!

Fuel injection engines are another matter. Preheating helps
vaporization so a good easy start is also assured. And a loud backfire
is never to be encountered due to a slow start.