Can I fly the NY VFR corridor w/o a XPNDR?

"Toks Desalu" wrote in message
...

You cannot enter 30nm ring without a transponder.


You can in an airplane that has never had an engine-driven electrical
system.

Toks Desalu wrote:

You cannot enter 30nm ring without a transponder. However, I think you can
get a special permission from FSDO to enter or leave without transponder
for good reasons. I dont think they will give you a permission because you
want to fly into that corridor without a transponder.

You get it from TRACON if your aircraft has an electrical system. The reason can be
as simple as "I want to fly through there on my way to xxx". Getting permission to
actually enter the class-B is another kettle of fish, but I've heard of it being
arranged.

As far as aircraft without electrical systems goes, FAR 91.215 states in part --
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not
originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not
subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may
conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed
in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted -;

(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and

(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area
designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and

Despite that last "and", there is no part iii in the copy of the FARs on the AOPA web
site.

As I read that, he can run the corridor if he wants to. That's outside the class B
airspace.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

As I read that, he can run the corridor if he wants to. That's outside the class B
airspace.

That's how I read it too. Anyone do this? Anyone have a
terminal chart and can verify that I'd have to go to 500' or
lower, or is there a sliver of 70/11 or higher east of the
Lady that I can't see?

Mike wrote:

That's how I read it too. Anyone do this? Anyone have a
terminal chart and can verify that I'd have to go to 500' or
lower, or is there a sliver of 70/11 or higher east of the
Lady that I can't see?

Most of NY harbor is under an 1,100' floor. This extends from the Jersey shore just
to the west of the Lady nearly to Brooklyn. There's a sliver of 1,500' floor along
the Brooklyn shore that extends to the Holland tunnel.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

That's how I read it too. Anyone do this? Anyone have a
terminal chart and can verify that I'd have to go to 500' or
lower, or is there a sliver of 70/11 or higher east of the
Lady that I can't see?

On the NY Terminal chart I have, there is a sliver of 70/+11 over the bay. The statue of liberty appears to be within that sliver (though at the edge of a 70/+05 piece, so I wouldn't circle it). The bottom of the Hudson (North of the Lady) is 70/15
left over from Brooklyn, the middle of the Hudson is 70/+11, and a bit North of the Washington Bridge you get 70/15 again until halfway to the TZ bridge, where it's 70/30. Going South, near the VZ Bridge it's 70/15, so if you stay below 1000 you'll
be outside the class B.

It's a nice trip. I do highly reccomend radio contact with other aircraft, so grab a handheld, listen, and self-announce.

Jose
--
for Email, make the obvious change in the address

One of the pilots at SMQ used to run the corridor in his Champ. No Xponder
there. I'll ask him about it when I see him next.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Toks Desalu wrote:

You cannot enter 30nm ring without a transponder. However, I think you
can
get a special permission from FSDO to enter or leave without
transponder
for good reasons. I dont think they will give you a permission because
you
want to fly into that corridor without a transponder.

You get it from TRACON if your aircraft has an electrical system. The
reason can be
as simple as "I want to fly through there on my way to xxx". Getting
permission to
actually enter the class-B is another kettle of fish, but I've heard of it
being
arranged.

As far as aircraft without electrical systems goes, FAR 91.215 states in
part --
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which
was not
originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which
has not
subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or
glider may
conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an
airport listed
in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are
conducted -;

(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and

(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace
area
designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and

Despite that last "and", there is no part iii in the copy of the FARs on
the AOPA web
site.

As I read that, he can run the corridor if he wants to. That's outside the
class B
airspace.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
been looking for it.

Toks Desalu wrote:

You cannot enter 30nm ring without a transponder....

This statement is incorrect. You need to review FAR 91.215, section b
(3). It states that the original request is legal (flight within the 30
mile Mode C veil, but NOT within the Class B), since the OP clearly
stated that the aircraft in question not only had no transponder, but no
electrical system.

This says nothing about the whether it's a good idea to fly NORDO within
the corridor - I'd be a bit hesitant. However, with a HANDHELD radio,
you'd be perfectly safe (at least as safe as everyone else) and
perfectly legal.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote in message
news:jtuid.55136$R05.36410@attbi_s53...
Toks Desalu wrote:

You cannot enter 30nm ring without a transponder....

This statement is incorrect. You need to review FAR 91.215, section b
(3). It states that the original request is legal (flight within the 30
mile Mode C veil, but NOT within the Class B), since the OP clearly
stated that the aircraft in question not only had no transponder, but no
electrical system.

This says nothing about the whether it's a good idea to fly NORDO within
the corridor - I'd be a bit hesitant. However, with a HANDHELD radio,
you'd be perfectly safe (at least as safe as everyone else) and
perfectly legal.


How does a handheld radio make you as safe as everyone else?

Steven P. McNicoll asks:

How does a handheld radio make you as safe as everyone else?

Many folks (I'm not necessarily one of them) believe that being in radio
contact with other aircraft in a relatively confined airspace is a key
factor in the safety of all of those aircraft. With the handheld, the
aircraft without the electrical system can still be in radio contact.
If you believe that this is a factor in safety, then the radio will get
you functional equivalency with the other aircraft that have built in
radios running off of their electrical system, which the aircraft in
question doesn't have.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote:

This says nothing about the whether it's a good idea to fly NORDO within
the corridor - I'd be a bit hesitant.

I'm not NORDO, just negative transponder so I can't get into
the Class B.