Chukar's own account

On 4/23/2015 5:21 AM, Jock Proudfoot wrote:
At 06:51 23 April 2015, krasw wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2015 04:52:26 UTC+3, Steve Leonard wrote:

Where does this "let go of the stick" comes from? Never seen it in any
glider flight manual. Is there some magical airplane that does right
control in puts to get you out of trouble?


The Hands-off Beggs/Mueller Emergency Spin Recovery Procedure
http://spirit.eaa.org/intheloop/arti...n_recovery.asp

Try it. I did. You may like it.

I never really needed it.

MG

--
Mike I Green

On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 7:30:04 AM UTC-5, Jock Proudfoot wrote:


The Hands-off Beggs/Mueller Emergency Spin Recovery Procedure
http://spirit.eaa.org/intheloop/arti...n_recovery.asp

This applies to POWER PLANES in a SPIN. It DOES NOT APPLY to a modern glass glider IN A SPIRAL DIVE.

Anyone who doesn't understand the fundamental difference between these two situations really needs to get in the books!

Kirk
66

Beggs/Mueller only works on aircraft certified for spins, because those aircraft will naturally exit the spin. Planes slow to exit the spin (like my Mooney http://www.mooneyevents.com/spins.html) need brisk full forward elevator. And even those certified for spins, with B/M, the CG needs to be far enough forward that the aircraft will nose over when the rotation stops. Even then (and I've posted this before), once the spin stops, you still have to break the dive without exceeding Vne (too slowly) and without a secondary accelerated stall (too fast).

here's a video of me in upset training recovering from an inverted spin using B/M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlVFhkQmXng

On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 8:30:04 AM UTC-4, Jock Proudfoot wrote:
The Hands-off Beggs/Mueller Emergency Spin Recovery Procedure
http://spirit.eaa.org/intheloop/arti...n_recovery.asp

On 4/23/2015 12:51 AM, krasw wrote:
On Thursday, 23 April 2015 04:52:26 UTC+3, Steve Leonard wrote:
I would throw out everything you have got and DON'T LET GO OF THE STICK.
The plane's stick free pitch stability is MUCH worse than its stick fixed
stability. When you let go, you are a passenger, accepting whatever the
upset brings you. Stay active, and aware of what is happening, and you
have a chance. Even if Active is just holding the stick in one
position.



Where does this "let go of the stick" comes from? Never seen it in any
glider flight manual. Is there some magical airplane that does right
control inputs to get you out of trouble?


For SSA members, check out the "Soaring" archive: November 1979, p. 28.

http://www.ssa.org/Archive/ViewIssue...nth=11&page=28

Attributed 2nd-hand to Einar Enevoldson (I couldn't find a direct writeup from
him, though maybe it's there); bullet 5 begins: "Take your hands and feet
completely off the controls..." The succinct article also contains "all the
expected caveats" known to the author at the time, while additional "benign
spiral mode" references within the archives elaborate on the points raised.

For many years (most of his career?), Einar Enevoldson was a NASA test pilot,
in addition to being a 3-diamond sailplane pilot, eventually sparkplug behind
the Perlan Project, and current world sailplane record altitude co-holder.

Bob W.

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 5:52:42 AM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
This came from the SoarNV mailing list:

-----

On Easter Sunday, Bob Spielman, known as Chukar, was caught in clouds on a very lively wave day and had to bail out of his wingless glider. He visited us today. He is in good spirits and flying once again. He has his 1-26 and his Sparrow Hawk to keep him in the sky.

This is his first person account of what happened, reprinted here with his permission.

Oh, and we now call him Lucky Chukar.

Here is his account:



to my friends
i was going to fly my biggest flight in my ASW 27 today, aiming for 12 hours. i took off at minden at 7:30
and went north to Stead and turned back for clouds ad flew south to Mammoth and then went north almost to Susanville.
it was slow and as i was passing over Reno i went between 2 clouds which filled in suddenly. I should have had a neat attitude indicater like Gordo has and i tried to fly my Garmin but it was so rough that things went to hell in a hurry.
I was IFR at 14000' and i felt a stall and then the airspeed increased fast thru 160k and i heard 2 pops and the canopy broke
i shortly came out the bottom of the clouds in a spin at maybe 9-10000' and tried to break the spin but it didn't work and i looked and saw the left wing wasn't there so i knew that wouldn't work.
I unlocked the emerg canopy release, open my harness and went over the side. i saw stuff flying thru the air (2 nanos,handheld radio. lunch etc) and couln't find my ripcord and thought it was gone but looked lower and found it and pulled it and it wasn't a very long ride down and i saw the glider fuselage going down below me.
i thought i was going to land on the CIRCUS CIRCUS roof but missed it an then i landed on the st mary hospital
roof but hoped my chute would snag the light pole. i hit the light and the chute snagged it and i ended up 10'
in the air. a reno cop pushed up on my feet so i could release my chute and slide down the pole.
HOW LUCKY I WAS.

I didn't go to the hospital but my son and daughter in law doctor told me i had to and they found a broken collar bone
and my right lung was collapsed so they had that fixed in an hour by 2 doctors who are in our air guard hospital.

i lost my phone so no service.

LUCKY CHUKAR
that ASW 27 was a beautiful glider.


There is more to this story if you look at the GPS track that was being posted by SSA Tracker page. The glider covered over 70 km going down wind to avoid the closed gap to over the Dog Skins and then was penetrating upwind when the problem occurred. The canopy was still attached to the glider when it landed in a parking lot, so the emergency release did not eject the canopy. The second wing was finally found close by, it went through a roof and was found inside a building. Good thing none of these pieces hurt someone on the ground.

All the discussion about this accident has over shadowed the accomplishment of Jim Payne who was well prepared and did a amazing flight at just under 3000km on the same day. I believe it is really important to focus on how to prepare and execute a flight in these strong wave conditions, rather than dwell on how lucky one was to survive. Given most of the facts, surviving was pure luck being snagged 10 ft off the ground by a light pole at the edge of a 5 story building.

BG

The "let go of the stick" part is probably a souvenir of the period (some 50 years ago) when gliders had airbrakes that kept the speed below Vne even in a vertical dive (this used to be specified in the standard class rules, before the Libelle/Cirrus/ASW-15 generation came up - see the Schweizer stories about vertical dive test flights). The technique you found in many gliding (teaching) manuals was indeed: "trim fully forward, airbrakes fully open, let go of the stick and rudder". At least here in Europe.

With modern gliders, the Vne limit will be reached long before a vertical dive position even with airbrakes fully deployed (I seem to remember that a 30° dive is sufficient with some open class self launchers or fully ballasted gliders). So it is probably common sense to try to hold the stick steady in pitch after trimming forward.

At 19:29 23 April 2015, wrote:
The "let go of the stick" part is probably a souvenir of the period (some
5=
0 years ago) when gliders had airbrakes that kept the speed below Vne
even
=
in a vertical dive (this used to be specified in the standard class
rules,
=
before the Libelle/Cirrus/ASW-15 generation came up - see the Schweizer
sto=
ries about vertical dive test flights). The technique you found in many
gli=
ding (teaching) manuals was indeed: "trim fully forward, airbrakes fully
op=
en, let go of the stick and rudder". At least here in Europe.

With modern gliders, the Vne limit will be reached long before a vertical
d=
ive position even with airbrakes fully deployed (I seem to remember that
a
=
30=B0 dive is sufficient with some open class self launchers or fully
balla=
sted gliders). So it is probably common sense to try to hold the stick
stea=
dy in pitch after trimming forward.

Benign spiral does work in most gliders. It involves trimming the glider to
say 55kts and then making sure that you do NOT move the stick against the
trim, in other words you maintain neutral stick input. It is a technique
that will allow you to descend through cloud if you do not have blind
flying instruments. A few important caveats. It would be difficult if not
impossible to set up while in cloud, the idea is that you set up while
clear of cloud. The original concept was to recover if the cloud gaps
closed beneath you, NOT if you are already in cloud. The other caveat is
that if you have given your airframe a really cold soak, when you descend
into the cloud you will pick up ice, clouds tend to have moisture, which
may be a complete game changer.

On Friday, 24 April 2015 11:45:06 UTC+3, Don Johnstone wrote:
The other caveat is
that if you have given your airframe a really cold soak, when you descend
into the cloud you will pick up ice, clouds tend to have moisture, which
may be a complete game changer.

Gliders fly pretty well with ice. You get ice in pretty much every climb to FL80-FL100 in my latitudes, most of the time there is few centimeters of rime ice on leading edges. You notice this while climbing as the airspeed starts to creep up while maintaining same turn rate and pitch attitude. I have only once noticed unusual friction with controls, and that was actually outside cloud. Cloud was apparently bit warmer and water droplets ran to aileron gap, and then froze outside cu in colder air. TE probe usually is the first to get ice, and if you don't have a variometer with electric compensation you probably loose the thermal soon. Pitot probe icing means it's time to open airbrakes and get out of the cloud asap. But at that point you have ice all over wings. It should be obvious that glider with icy wings glides like a brick, and in cold airmass ice melts sometimes at disturbingly low altitude (bug wipers are very good for wiping melting ice).

On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 at 5:52:42 AM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
This came from the SoarNV mailing list:

-----

On Easter Sunday, Bob Spielman, known as Chukar, was caught in clouds on a very lively wave day and had to bail out of his wingless glider. He visited us today. He is in good spirits and flying once again. He has his 1-26 and his Sparrow Hawk to keep him in the sky.

This is his first person account of what happened, reprinted here with his permission.

Oh, and we now call him Lucky Chukar.

Here is his account:



to my friends
i was going to fly my biggest flight in my ASW 27 today, aiming for 12 hours. i took off at minden at 7:30
and went north to Stead and turned back for clouds ad flew south to Mammoth and then went north almost to Susanville.
it was slow and as i was passing over Reno i went between 2 clouds which filled in suddenly. I should have had a neat attitude indicater like Gordo has and i tried to fly my Garmin but it was so rough that things went to hell in a hurry.
I was IFR at 14000' and i felt a stall and then the airspeed increased fast thru 160k and i heard 2 pops and the canopy broke
i shortly came out the bottom of the clouds in a spin at maybe 9-10000' and tried to break the spin but it didn't work and i looked and saw the left wing wasn't there so i knew that wouldn't work.
I unlocked the emerg canopy release, open my harness and went over the side. i saw stuff flying thru the air (2 nanos,handheld radio. lunch etc) and couln't find my ripcord and thought it was gone but looked lower and found it and pulled it and it wasn't a very long ride down and i saw the glider fuselage going down below me.
i thought i was going to land on the CIRCUS CIRCUS roof but missed it an then i landed on the st mary hospital
roof but hoped my chute would snag the light pole. i hit the light and the chute snagged it and i ended up 10'
in the air. a reno cop pushed up on my feet so i could release my chute and slide down the pole.
HOW LUCKY I WAS.

I didn't go to the hospital but my son and daughter in law doctor told me i had to and they found a broken collar bone
and my right lung was collapsed so they had that fixed in an hour by 2 doctors who are in our air guard hospital.

i lost my phone so no service.

LUCKY CHUKAR
that ASW 27 was a beautiful glider.

Anyone ever considered a DuckHawk? If you hit 160 knots all you need to worry about is tightening your belts up and keep that enormous smile on your face! 160 knots indicated is Maneuver speed even at Bob's altitude and above.. It's a hard argument to say that all of the extra margin both structurally (+11g/-9g airframe) and in the speed envelope (VNE 200 knots for DuckHawk SV or 225 knots DuckHawk VNX) isn't the best way in the soaring world to buy yourself safety. It doesn't guarantee that you don't have a bad situation still happen here but it sure opens up a lot of other doors for an a potential to escape. Oh yeah not to mention that you would smash the records set that day by Payne.

Bob if you get a chance to read this know that we at Windward love you buddy and we are so glad you made it out of that ok! It brought a huge smile to my face to look up the Reno news link and see a picture of you, the cop, and the EMT all laughing. I thought to myself, "yep that's Bob making even the emergency responders laugh and feel good"
Way to go Lucky Chuckar.

Wade

Thank you "Lucky Chukar" Bob Spielman for you account of what happened on this flight.

I will be trying out the benign spiral this weekend or the next.

Chuck Zabinski