Hero emulation

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.

Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?

The Wurtsboro accident wasn't a show off speed pass based on what observers I spoke with said. It is quite likely that it was a rushed return and pattern due to a physical problem.
UH

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.

Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?

One of the advantages of simulation-based flight training is the ability to experience potentially dangerous situations without the associated risk.

Individuals can learn quite a bit through self-directed trial/error. It would have been more prudent, and increased the probability of a happy ending, had the young person in question experienced the proposed maneuver lots of times in simulation before attempting it in a real aircraft.

Certainly, in cooperation with a mentor, simulation-based training of this type would be that much more effective and efficient, as it is in general.

As part of my presentation at the Reno convention next week, I am doing a segment called "Having Fun with Condor" in which I demonstrate a variety of flight situations I have experimented with in simulation, ranging from plausible to insane. In all these situations, I learned a lot about glider performance, my abilities, and how quickly some situations can turn deadly.

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 1:34:49 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
...past time we teach student pilots how to fly safe and low.

Agreed. In USA we manage to kill a pilot every few years with untrained
imitation (Uvalde, Wurtsboro, etc).

A while back I talked to Scott Manley about doing video showing the
ways people usually die (slow speed and or button-hook).
Scott started but sorry I don't know if this was ever completed?

One of the advantages of simulation-based flight training is the ability to experience potentially dangerous situations without the associated risk.

Individuals can learn quite a bit through self-directed trial/error. It would have been more prudent, and increased the probability of a happy ending, had the young person in question experienced the proposed maneuver lots of times in simulation before attempting it in a real aircraft.

Certainly, in cooperation with a mentor, simulation-based training of this type would be that much more effective and efficient, as it is in general..

As part of my presentation at the Reno convention next week, I am doing a segment called "Having Fun with Condor" in which I demonstrate a variety of flight situations I have experimented with in simulation, ranging from plausible to insane. In all these situations, I learned a lot about glider performance, my abilities, and how quickly some situations can turn deadly.

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI

Scott - Did you finish the video(s) on how not to do high speed passes for SSF?
Thanks!
Best Regards, Dave

Scott - Did you finish the video(s) on how not to do high speed passes for SSF?
Thanks!
Best Regards, Dave

Most of the work I did for the SSF is available on their website

http://www.soaringsafety.org/

Under the links "FLIGHT TRAINING VIDEOS" and "FLIGHT SAFETY VIDEOS".

I worked with Rich Carlson and Bob Wander to produce 9 "FLIGHT SAFETY" videos each showing a situation that has been known to end badly. I also produced 1 "FLIGHT TRAINING" video demonstrating/describing "How to approach/land in a crosswind."

I remember you (Dave) contacting me, asking if Condor could be used to produce a video of a high-speed low pass gone wrong. I assured you it could, I remember doing the flying and recording a Condor Replay of a failed high-speed low pass (glider stalls and spins as it attempts the reversing turn after pulling up and losing airspeed), and I sort of remember getting back to you (Dave) with "what do you think about this?", but I don't remember the effort going any further than that. I remember the request as coming from you (Dave), not from the SSF, but you (Dave) had probably seen the other SSF videos and were suggesting that a LOW PASS GONE BAD video be adding to he mix.

I just searched my Condor folders and can't find any remnant of the Replay I claim above to have produced.

Producing these videos turns out to be quite a bit of work.
1) A perfect example of what is being demonstrated needs to be flown. This often takes dozens/scores of attempts.
2) The perfect example is stored as a Condor Replay
3) The Replay, or segments of it, need to be captured using video capture software, e.g. FRAPS to produce an actual video format, e.g. .wmv. A Condor Replay is not actually a video, it is a parameter file that Condor uses to generate video output internally. A Replay (.rpy) can only be played back using Condor)
4) The video captured by FRAPS then needs to be edited into the final product using software like Windows Movie Maker.

Anyone with a lot of time, the required software, and the requisite skills can produce a similar video. )

Scott Manley - 3167160CFI

what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight?

The honest answers are "there isn't a purpose (anymore)" and it adds "nothing" further to the flight. But it does on occasion make some really fascinating video footage: See: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb8dcs
ROY

Why low passes? Well, to have fun, of course, but also because, according to some, going into ground effect some distance before the arrival line is the most efficient way to finish a competition flight.

However, according to most "mathematical minds", the energy loss incurred by having to accelerate to VNe and keep the speed at VNe until going into ground effect, can never be compensated by that ground effect. Certainly not if you still have enough energy when crossing the arrival line to pull up and do a 360 before landing. That energy is lost for the flight. You can just have fun with it, if it doesn't scare you to death - or kills you.

Some years ago (2003-2004, IIRC), the British Juniors published a series of "smoking vid" DVD's that were sold as a fundraising source for them and showed some of the most crazy low passes you can imagine. I even seem to remember a low pass by an Astir CS where the belly of the glider actually touched the ground at full speed, going straight at the camera. Sure, it was fun....

But then, at the Junior World Gliding Championships at Husbands Bosworth, Leics, in August 2005, Neil Lawson, a well known glider photographer, was killed by the low passing glider he was photographing. No more "smoking vids" after that event. And the championship rules where amended to actively discourage low pass arrivals.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 2:51:44 PM UTC+3, Stéphane Vander Veken wrote:
Why low passes? Well, to have fun, of course, but also because, according to some, going into ground effect some distance before the arrival line is the most efficient way to finish a competition flight.

However, according to most "mathematical minds", the energy loss incurred by having to accelerate to VNe and keep the speed at VNe until going into ground effect, can never be compensated by that ground effect. Certainly not if you still have enough energy when crossing the arrival line to pull up and do a 360 before landing. That energy is lost for the flight.

The most efficient is to climb *just* enough in the last thermal to cruise at MC=finalClimbRate and arrive at the finish line with zero altitude and land through it.

However if you misjudge that and end up short then it's a very bad day, so everyone puts an extra 500 ft or 1000 ft in the bank before starting the final glide.

Having done that (and wasted anything from one to five minutes more than you really needed to climbing), you can get a minute or more back by speeding up 20 or 30 km before the finish to again plan to arrive at the finish at zero altitude .. but with a much higher speed.

At 12:24 23 February 2018, Bruce Hoult wrote:

The most efficient is to climb *just* enough in the last thermal to
cruise
=
at MC=3DfinalClimbRate and arrive at the finish line with zero
altitude
and=
land through it.

However if you misjudge that and end up short then it's a very bad
day, so
=
everyone puts an extra 500 ft or 1000 ft in the bank before
starting the
fi=
nal glide.

Having done that (and wasted anything from one to five minutes
more than
yo=
u really needed to climbing), you can get a minute or more back
by
speeding=
up 20 or 30 km before the finish to again plan to arrive at the
finish at
=
zero altitude .. but with a much higher speed.


Thank you Bruce for sparing me the need to spell it out for those
who have not done much competition flying. We "fudge in" extra
altitude for unexpected sink along the final glide. I was once at
120 Kts, full of water, 5 miles from the finish, at 2,000' AGL (at
Hobbs in the early 1980's), and even passed up a 10 Kt dust devil
along the way, only to run into extreme sink and headwind over
irrigated fields in the last couple of miles so that I was just barely
able to make a direct rolling finish. Other times, one runs into
unexpected lift along final glide and winds up with a lot of excess
energy, some of which can be converted to speed points by doing a
flying finish. Now, if all of the minimum finish altitudes are jacked
up, and direct rolling finishes are not allowed, that is again another
matter, but contrary to some people's opinions, there has been a
place in competition soaring for low flying finishes.

RO

Maybe, what we should do is accept the reality that some inexperienced pilots are still going to try a high speed low pass regardless of warnings - and so we should give them some advice on how to to mitigate the risk. Especially this seems needed with respect to hazards that are not programmed into Condor if our newbie hero thinks Condor alone will prepare him/her for the event. In my experience, here are some things that mitigate (but do not eliminate) the risks: 1) Know your glider's energy exchange performance with respect to speed and altitude (how much altitude does it take to accelerate to 90% of VNE and how much altitude will be gained (usually) on the climb back)? How is it different with water ballast? Experiment first at altitude.. 2) Secure the cockpit before starting the maneuver. Stow everything that can bounce, fly around the cockpit, or foul the landing gear handle and be ready for an expedited landing after the pass. 3) Trim the glider and set the flaps for the speed you expect parallel to the ground and change nothing during the high speed portion of the maneuver (do not change hands on the stick and if you are dumping water start that on the way down while high and early) 4) straps tight and do nothing to move your body fore or aft at high speed. Shut the vent window before starting and if you forget to - ignore it., 5) Know and respect your density altitude and TAS, 6) Double check the pattern and use the radio for your intentions 7) Use smooth stick pressure through the entire maneuver, 8) No closer to the ground than 1 wingspan until you are expert at the maneuver, 9) Expect to abort the maneuver at any time and have your landing plan/pattern worked out before you start. 10) Only on a light wind day.
ROY

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 7:23:32 PM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
Maybe, what we should do is accept the reality that some inexperienced pilots are still going to try a high speed low pass regardless of warnings

Some newish pilots have never heard the warnings, yet almost all new pilots have seen low passes on Youtube (or live). The bold young pilot that I stumbled across said he was motivated to try his first low pass after seeing the 'competition finishes' on the recent Chilean Grand Prix video. He got some strong feedback from his club members AFTER completing his first low pass.