Approach From a Hold

I think that the first thing you would hear from the controller if you
followed the instructor's method is "Where are you going? If you want the
full procedure, ask for it."

A good rule to follow is this: The easiest way is almost always the correct
way. Remember that the flight test folks have to fly these procedures and
they don't like to be jerked around (I'll admit that flight test is unlikely
to be assigned a hold).

Bob Gardner


"Mitty" wrote in message
...
Question for the controllers he

The KMIC VOR-A is a pretty vanilla approach. The FAF is the Gopher VOR
(GEP) about 5 miles north of the field. The missed procedure is to go
back to GEP and hold north, left turns -- depicted as a dotted race track
on the plate. (The FAA link seems to be broken for me, at least:
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/05158VGA.PDF)

I have been vectored into that hold (not entered from a miss) and then
cleared for the approach. At that point, I flew the inbound leg towards
the VOR/FAF and continued down the approach path to KMIC. Seemed logical
to me and it certainly seemed to be what Minneapolis Approach was
expecting.

I have a CFII friend who thinks this was improper -- that since the hold
was not depicted on the approach plate (as part of the approach) that I
should have flown the full approach including the procedure turn. I guess
his thought is that I wasn't really receiving vectors since I was in the
hold.

Who is right here? Me and Approach, or my friend?

TIA,
Mitty

Mitty wrote:


I have been vectored into that hold

Which would involve language like "fly headig xxx, direct Gopher,
holding instructions.") You were only vectored to the hold if you were
told you were being vectored into the hold and not "vectors for the
final approach course."



I have a CFII friend who thinks this was improper -- that since the hold
was not depicted on the approach plate (as part of the approach) that I
should have flown the full approach including the procedure turn.

You never fly the full approach when vectored unless you specifically
work that out with the controller. If you're last instruction from
Approach was something like "N123, you're 5 miles from Gopher, maintain
3000 until established on the final approach course, turn left heading
xxx cleared VOR A approach into Crystal." then you were being vectored
to final and were not supposed to go back outbound when you got to the
VOR. It's hard to believe a "CFI" could screw this up. This is a
garden variety VOR approach.


I
guess his thought is that I wasn't really receiving vectors since I was
in the hold.

It all comes down to the wording. What exactly did the controller say
to you?

"Mitty" wrote in message
...

Question for the controllers he

The KMIC VOR-A is a pretty vanilla approach. The FAF is the Gopher VOR
(GEP) about 5 miles north of the field. The missed procedure is to go
back to GEP and hold north, left turns -- depicted as a dotted race track
on the plate. (The FAA link seems to be broken for me, at least:
http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/05158VGA.PDF)

I have been vectored into that hold (not entered from a miss) and then
cleared for the approach. At that point, I flew the inbound leg towards
the VOR/FAF and continued down the approach path to KMIC. Seemed logical
to me and it certainly seemed to be what Minneapolis Approach was
expecting.

I have a CFII friend who thinks this was improper -- that since the hold
was not depicted on the approach plate (as part of the approach) that I
should have flown the full approach including the procedure turn. I guess
his thought is that I wasn't really receiving vectors since I was in the
hold.


If you made a turn (or more) in the hold which established your aircraft
inbound on the FAC then you DID fly the full approach.



Who is right here? Me and Approach, or my friend?


You and approach.

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
Question for the controllers he


I should have flown the full approach including the procedure turn.
TIA,
Mitty

You did. If you were on the protected side (procedure turn) side
of the final approach course you chose a perfectly fine way to
get turned around.

OtisWinslow wrote:

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
Question for the controllers he


I should have flown the full approach including the procedure turn.
TIA,
Mitty

You did. If you were on the protected side (procedure turn) side
of the final approach course you chose a perfectly fine way to
get turned around.

In this case the hold is not on the same side of the intermediate segment
as the PT. But, so what?

wrote in message ...

In this case the hold is not on the same side of the intermediate segment
as the PT. But, so what?


Right you are. I couldn't get the link to work from the original post .. and
having gone back in thru the FAA site and looked it up I see that now.
However
I'd still do it the same and just come around and finish the approach. I'd
be
sure the controller knew what I was doing .. but seldom do they want you
just out there riding around. They want you on the ground and out
of their airspace in the quickest manner that's safe.

Just did a similar one on my IPC last month - instructor says if
inbound course in hold is within 30 degrees and altitude permits normal
approach, continue the approach. In this case, we had a 31 degree
course difference, so he made me do the PT :-) Needed the practice
anyway.