Iced up Cirrus descends by BRS

"darthpup" wrote in message
oups.com...
You think ice builds up slowly? Think again. In thirty to sixty
seconds your wings can become unusable. Flying into clouds in the
Winter. DDDuuuuuhhh


Never said it did.

----------------------------------------
DW

Darkwing wrote:

"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...

Ron Lee wrote:


And the reports seem to glorify the BRS yet nothing is mentioned of
why the pilot entered icing conditions and if that should have been
anticipated. Ron Lee


Another point to consider, weather conditions on the ground at that time
were quite good. Birmingham reported about 4300 Broken, temp +9C.
Montgomery had 3500 Scattered, +14C. Odds are, he could have just
descended into warmer, clearer air, shed the ice, and flew on, a bit wiser
and scareder(sp?). We'll never know, of course, and you can't argue with
"success", but I have to wonder about this "pull the chute if anything is
amiss, and let the chips fall where they may(so to speak)" mentality that
the BRS types advocate. Someday, someone's going to get hurt, when they
didn't have to.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane



That's true in any situation and our Armchair Quarterbacking will always
make sense after the fact. But if the thing truly did go out of control I
don't think I would "hope" that a warmer lower level would shed the ice and
allow me to regain control, assuming of course the wings stayed attached. I
think I'd rather read that the chute "saved" the lives of 3 GA pilots and
passengers instead of another GA plane crash in bad weather that caused the
plane to "stall". The chute, whatever your opinion as a pilot, is a good PR
story for GA.

Baloney. They may be good PR for Cirrus, and I've long suspected this
was the only motivation behind including them, but they are lousy PR for
GA overall.


Matt

Matt,

Baloney. They may be good PR for Cirrus, and I've long suspected this
was the only motivation behind including them, but they are lousy PR for
GA overall.


Yep, 3 dead would have been much better PR for GA. And the plane would
probably have shedded the ice while spinning through 5000, too. Great!

What's wrong with you guys?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message news:
Darkwing wrote:
That's true in any situation and our Armchair Quarterbacking will always
make sense after the fact. But if the thing truly did go out of control I
don't think I would "hope" that a warmer lower level would shed the ice
and allow me to regain control, assuming of course the wings stayed
attached. I think I'd rather read that the chute "saved" the lives of 3
GA pilots and passengers instead of another GA plane crash in bad weather
that caused the plane to "stall". The chute, whatever your opinion as a
pilot, is a good PR story for GA.

Baloney. They may be good PR for Cirrus, and I've long suspected this was
the only motivation behind including them, but they are lousy PR for GA
overall.

How so? And how do you know it?

moo

Scott Skylane wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:

And the reports seem to glorify the BRS yet nothing is mentioned of
why the pilot entered icing conditions and if that should have been
anticipated.

Ron Lee

Another point to consider, weather conditions on the ground at that time
were quite good. Birmingham reported about 4300 Broken, temp +9C.
Montgomery had 3500 Scattered, +14C. Odds are, he could have just
descended into warmer, clearer air, shed the ice, and flew on, a bit
wiser and scareder(sp?). We'll never know, of course, and you can't
argue with "success", but I have to wonder about this "pull the chute if
anything is amiss, and let the chips fall where they may(so to speak)"
mentality that the BRS types advocate. Someday, someone's going to get
hurt, when they didn't have to.

Ok, so the PIREP shows severe icing at 7700 to 9000'. Ground temp at
Montgomery +14C. Assume 3 degree decrease per 1K feet and freezing
level may have been around 5000'. Temps below freezing and in clouds.

Now is that conducive to icing?

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:

Wallace Berry wrote:


Friday, an iced up Cirrus came down under BRS. Just a bit northwest of
where I live here in Alabama. According to the newspaper, it took off
out of Birmingham and iced up climbing through clouds, stalled, and the
pilot popped the BRS. Came down in a tree. Pilot and passengers
uninjured.


And the reports seem to glorify the BRS yet nothing is mentioned of
why the pilot entered icing conditions and if that should have been
anticipated.

Yes, it'll be fun to see the stats after a few more years of experience.
I'm still betting that the BRS system encourages more risk taking and
I'll bet that this will, in the end, overcome any safety advantage from
the chute and cause the overall safety record of the Cirrus to be as
bad, or even worse, than similar non-chute aircraft.

And for this you carry around extra weight, pay more money and have an
explosive device always onboard!

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Ron Lee wrote:

Wallace Berry wrote:


Friday, an iced up Cirrus came down under BRS. Just a bit northwest of
where I live here in Alabama. According to the newspaper, it took off out
of Birmingham and iced up climbing through clouds, stalled, and the pilot
popped the BRS. Came down in a tree. Pilot and passengers uninjured.


And the reports seem to glorify the BRS yet nothing is mentioned of
why the pilot entered icing conditions and if that should have been
anticipated.

Yes, it'll be fun to see the stats after a few more years of experience.
I'm still betting that the BRS system encourages more risk taking and I'll
bet that this will, in the end, overcome any safety advantage from the
chute and cause the overall safety record of the Cirrus to be as bad, or
even worse, than similar non-chute aircraft.

And for this you carry around extra weight, pay more money and have an
explosive device always onboard!

Matt


I would say an aircraft of similar build without a chute is the
Columbia/Lancair factory built planes. Comparing their safety records in 5
years should give a better indication if the chute makes a difference.

-----------------------------------
DW

"Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:

I would say an aircraft of similar build without a chute is the
Columbia/Lancair factory built planes. Comparing their safety records in 5
years should give a better indication if the chute makes a difference.

Ultimately I bet pilot issues will be the main factor.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:
"Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:


I would say an aircraft of similar build without a chute is the
Columbia/Lancair factory built planes. Comparing their safety records in 5
years should give a better indication if the chute makes a difference.


Ultimately I bet pilot issues will be the main factor.

I agree. The question in my mind is will the presence of the BRS affect
the pilot's judgement.

Matt

Ron Lee wrote:

And the reports seem to glorify the BRS yet nothing is mentioned of
why the pilot entered icing conditions and if that should have been
anticipated.

I am curious about the TKS system. Was the accident Cirrus equipped with a
TKS anti-ice system, as the SR22 models are these days?

--
Peter