Jepp no longer in the GA business...?

wrote in message ...


Scott Moore wrote:


So is there some good software for cockpit computers that integrates the
NACO charts in a reasonable way ? I can't see fooling with acrobat
reader every time I need to bring up an approach....

If you buy the NACO DVD and load it onto your computer it is fairly
friendly, but I
wouldn't want to use it as primary. Printed charts (which look really
good from a
good laser) for what you anticipate, then the electronic form as a backup
for
contingincies.

A notebook computer with the CD already in the slot and a Canon I80 Color
BubbleJet portable printer and you've got a high quality chart inside a
minute.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

wrote in message ...


Scott Moore wrote:


So is there some good software for cockpit computers that integrates the
NACO charts in a reasonable way ? I can't see fooling with acrobat
reader every time I need to bring up an approach....

If you buy the NACO DVD and load it onto your computer it is fairly
friendly, but I
wouldn't want to use it as primary. Printed charts (which look really
good from a
good laser) for what you anticipate, then the electronic form as a backup
for
contingincies.

A notebook computer with the CD already in the slot and a Canon I80 Color
BubbleJet portable printer and you've got a high quality chart inside a
minute.

NACO charts come on a DVD.

Oh, and I forgot to say: those new NACO PDF charts probably wiped out Jeppesen's
retail sales.

John Harper wrote:
I went to get my new IFR charts today and my local pilot shop told me they
will no longer be carrying Jepp products. I know that some places have
already stopped, but at PAO/RHV they thought up until a few days ago that
they would be able to carry on.

Seems someone at Jepp has had the brilliant idea to stop retail sales of
their chart products to force people to subscribe. I don't like being
blackmailed at any time, and the NOS charts are fine - I prefer Jepp but not
THAT much - so that's the end of Jepp as far as I'm concerned.

Some quick math suggests that Jepp have just kissed goodbye to $10-20M of
business/year. What are they thinking?

John



I don't know what they are thinking, but I learned with NOS charts and
have stayed with them. Since returning to flight after a 4+ year
layoff, it seems to me (maybe just my imagination) that the new NOS (or
is it NACO now?) charts seem to be of higher quality than before with
clearer and darker print and better paper. I stuck with NOS because I
can find them almost anywhere if I need another chart while "on the road."

In the past, I always had a chart subscription direct with NOS and will
likely do so again, but for now I am buying as needed at the local FBO
and that is working fine so far and they maintain a decent selection and
inventory.

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

In the past, I always had a chart subscription direct with NOS and will
likely do so again, but for now I am buying as needed at the local FBO
and that is working fine so far and they maintain a decent selection and
inventory.

I did my original training with Jepp, and used them for a bunch of
years. I wasted a huge amount of time doing the revision filing thing,
then spent a bit more money and got a Jepp Express subscription which
killed more trees, but saved a lot of time.

A while ago, I wasn't flying much and let my Jepp subscription lapse.
When I picked up again, I decided to go with NOS/NACO/whatever, if only
to force myself to become proficient at reading their charts. I still
think Jepp does a better approach plate, but the new style NOS charts
with the briefing strip are a big improvement over what they used to be.

The recent availability of on-line vector PDF charts sold me for good.
The convenience and cost just can't be beat. I print out what I want,
when I want it, and pick up the en-routes at the FBO once in a while.

Roy Smith wrote:

The recent availability of on-line vector PDF charts sold me for good.
The convenience and cost just can't be beat. I print out what I want,
when I want it, and pick up the en-routes at the FBO once in a while.

There are two rules to properly use NACO charts, which apply less to Jepps.

1. You must check the FDC NOTAMs without fail because NACO is not allowed to
chart "T" FDC NOTAMs, whereas Jeppesen selectively charts them. And, just
because a 28-day cycle passes doesn't mean that NACO will now chart such a
NOTAM. They won't.

2. You absolutely need to subscribe to the AF/D because NACO provides none of
the important data, such as VGSI limitations, etc, that Jeppesen provides
(sometimes incorrectly, I may add) on its airport pages.

With those two caveats, you're probably better off with today's NACO charts.
Also, a subscription to NACO's en route charts from Sporty's is probably a
good idea. NACO's en route charts have always been crisper, easier to read
than Jepp's so far as I am concerned.

In article , wrote:
1. You must check the FDC NOTAMs without fail because NACO is not allowed to
chart "T" FDC NOTAMs, whereas Jeppesen selectively charts them. And, just
because a 28-day cycle passes doesn't mean that NACO will now chart such a
NOTAM. They won't.

Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.

One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.

2. You absolutely need to subscribe to the AF/D because NACO provides none of
the important data, such as VGSI limitations, etc, that Jeppesen provides
(sometimes incorrectly, I may add) on its airport pages.

I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.





With those two caveats, you're probably better off with today's NACO charts.
Also, a subscription to NACO's en route charts from Sporty's is probably a
good idea. NACO's en route charts have always been crisper, easier to read
than Jepp's so far as I am concerned.

Roy Smith wrote:



Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.


I don't know of any automated method. But, one of the DUAT vendors, I don't recall
which one off-hand, makes it pretty easy by requesting a single location briefing
and including FDC NOTAMs specific to that location. It you err and include general
FDC NOTAMs you end up with all that mostly useless BS.


One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.

I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.


Give your method a test. Check both Runway 3 at PHLI (Lihue, Hawaii) and Runway 15
at KASE (Aspen, Colorado) and see if you get the VGSI restrictions for both of
those runways. If you do, you likely don't need the AF/D either.

Neither AOPA's nor Aeroplanner airport directories for those two airports provide
that information.

Roy Smith wrote:

In article , wrote:

1. You must check the FDC NOTAMs without fail because NACO is not allowed to
chart "T" FDC NOTAMs, whereas Jeppesen selectively charts them. And, just
because a 28-day cycle passes doesn't mean that NACO will now chart such a
NOTAM. They won't.


Good point. Is there any easy way for the general public to access
notams other than through duats? Duats is OK for human use, but it's a
pain if you're trying to automate anything.

One of the problems with FDC notams is there's so much volume, and so
little of it is actually relevant to any flight. It would be nice to
have a system that let you tick of which airports you were interested
in, and it would just gather up the approach plate PDFs and find any
associated FDC notams automatically.


2. You absolutely need to subscribe to the AF/D because NACO provides none of
the important data, such as VGSI limitations, etc, that Jeppesen provides
(sometimes incorrectly, I may add) on its airport pages.


I suppose I've been living dangerously, but I havn't looked at an AFD in
years. When I was a Jepp user, the added info came with the Jepp kit.
Now, I find that I get everything I need to know about an airport from
one or another web site. I can't remember the last time I got someplace
and didn't know something I needed to know in advance.

I've been doing the same. I always carry the AOPA airport guide, but I
realize it isn't the same as the AF/D.


Matt

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
A while ago, I wasn't flying much and let my Jepp subscription lapse.
When I picked up again, I decided to go with NOS/NACO/whatever, if only
to force myself to become proficient at reading their charts. I still
think Jepp does a better approach plate, but the new style NOS charts
with the briefing strip are a big improvement over what they used to be.

That's my impression too. The main things I still prefer on the Jepp plates
are the highlighting of the final approach navaid pointer, and the more
intuitive profiling of step-down fixes (the diagonal-then-horizontal
descent-and-level-off depiction, as opposed to the diagonal-only line that
NACO draws).

--Gary