How to tell my instructor to increase glidespeed with headwind?

"Nik" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
After the flight I pulled up the Glider Flying handbook online and it
says:

"...it is apparent that flying a faster airspeed as the headwind
increases will result in the greatest distance over the
ground. If this is done for the polar curves from many
gliders, a general rule of thumb is found, namely, add
half the headwind component to the best L/D for the
maximum distance."

But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

Thanks!
-Nik

Point out what happens if there is a 65 kt headwind. I.E. you just descend
without any horizontal speed. So, in that case something over 65 knots
would give you more glide range. While that doesn't prove that adding half
the wind velocity is a good rule of thumb, it clearly demonstrates that
"best glide" isn't always the right answer.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Correct the instructor if he is wrong. If this creates an obstacle to
attaining your own objectives, find another instructor.

You're kidding, right?

Obviously he's not. Mxsmanic has no qualms about "correcting" his
instructors even when they are already right. Clearly he would have no
problem correcting his instructor if he is wrong.

"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in message
...
It has been a while since this happened, but my Instructor when I was
going for my PP-ASEL told me 70 was best glide in the C172 but I knew the
manual said 65, I showed him it one day and he said he was wrong and glad
I pointed it out. So if you show him info "from a higher power" he will
listen.

The problem here is that the POH for the Cessna 172 does not (as far as I
recall) discuss adjusting best glide airspeed for wind. This isn't a
question of using the wrong data for the airplane, but applying the
published data incorrectly.

There are other "higher powers" to refer to, but in this case, Nik already
tried showing the instructor one (the "Glider Flying Handbook"...an FAA
publication, I assume?), and the instructor didn't accept that as a valid
reference.

Pete

Judah writes:

You're kidding, right?

No.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Peter Duniho wrote:
Obviously he's not. Mxsmanic has no qualms about "correcting" his
instructors even when they are already right. Clearly he would have no
problem correcting his instructor if he is wrong.

Yeah, the ****in' troll would just say, "Well, that's not how it works
in MSFS, so you are wrong"...

Ask the instructor what IAS should be flown with a wind that
is 50 knots? Then do a wind triangle and try the same
calculation with higher IAS. Personally I would fly
zero-wind at best glide plus 5 knots, that allows some
recovery if there is a need.

Also, ask the instructor to explain his theory of the best
glide with a dead engine and how that compares to a glider.
Also ask why gliders often use partial speed brakes on
approach?



"Peter Duniho" wrote in
message ...
| "Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in message
| ...
| It has been a while since this happened, but my
Instructor when I was
| going for my PP-ASEL told me 70 was best glide in the
C172 but I knew the
| manual said 65, I showed him it one day and he said he
was wrong and glad
| I pointed it out. So if you show him info "from a higher
power" he will
| listen.
|
| The problem here is that the POH for the Cessna 172 does
not (as far as I
| recall) discuss adjusting best glide airspeed for wind.
This isn't a
| question of using the wrong data for the airplane, but
applying the
| published data incorrectly.
|
| There are other "higher powers" to refer to, but in this
case, Nik already
| tried showing the instructor one (the "Glider Flying
Handbook"...an FAA
| publication, I assume?), and the instructor didn't accept
that as a valid
| reference.
|
| Pete
|
|

"Peter Duniho" wrote in news:12kihq1mi75qef1
@corp.supernews.com:

Correct the instructor if he is wrong. If this creates an obstacle to
attaining your own objectives, find another instructor.

You're kidding, right?

Obviously he's not. Mxsmanic has no qualms about "correcting" his
instructors even when they are already right. Clearly he would have no
problem correcting his instructor if he is wrong.

Yeah, but he's suggesting the OP go find a new instructor if correcting him
doesn't work.

So why does he refuse to do the same?

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Yeah, but he's suggesting the OP go find a new instructor if correcting
him
doesn't work.

I see what you mean.

So why does he refuse to do the same?

Where else would he go?

An actual student pilot has the actual option of hiring a different
instructor. Our resident ignoramus is unlikely to find a more responsive,
more enthusiastic group of people to stir up than he's found here.
Obviously, his advice only applies to someone who has available to him a
better instructor.

Besides, it should not be all that surprising that, given his inability to
integrate information offered here into his knowledge, he is also unable to
integrate advice of his own that he offers. Just because he says it, that
doesn't mean he believes it, nor does it mean that even if he did believe,
he is capable of following the advice.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

Where else would he go?

An actual student pilot has the actual option of hiring a different
instructor. Our resident ignoramus is unlikely to find a more
responsive, more enthusiastic group of people to stir up than he's found
here. Obviously, his advice only applies to someone who has available to
him a better instructor.

Besides, it should not be all that surprising that, given his inability
to integrate information offered here into his knowledge, he is also
unable to integrate advice of his own that he offers. Just because he
says it, that doesn't mean he believes it, nor does it mean that even if
he did believe, he is capable of following the advice.

It doesn't surprise me - after all it's impossible to fire an instructor
who doesn't charge you for his tutelage...

But then, the beatings he has taken from people calling him a troll (and
worse) would have certainly been enough punishment to seem like a cost.
It's been suggested that he try sim groups or even rec.aviation.student,
but he still refuses to go. Then again, for a guy who spends much of his
time in the alt.support.shyness group, he may have gotten so comfortable
with the regulars in this group, that it's easier for him to take the
beatings than it would be to try to engage new people on another forum.

One can never tell...

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

Where else would he go?

An actual student pilot has the actual option of hiring a different
instructor. Our resident ignoramus is unlikely to find a more
responsive, more enthusiastic group of people to stir up than he's found
here. Obviously, his advice only applies to someone who has available to
him a better instructor.

Besides, it should not be all that surprising that, given his inability
to integrate information offered here into his knowledge, he is also
unable to integrate advice of his own that he offers. Just because he
says it, that doesn't mean he believes it, nor does it mean that even if
he did believe, he is capable of following the advice.

It doesn't surprise me - after all it's impossible to fire an instructor
who doesn't charge you for his tutelage...

But then, the beatings he has taken from people calling him a troll (and
worse) would have certainly been enough punishment to seem like a cost.
It's been suggested that he try sim groups or even rec.aviation.student,
but he still refuses to go. Then again, for a guy who spends much of his
time in the alt.support.shyness group, he may have gotten so comfortable
with the regulars in this group, that it's easier for him to take the
beatings than it would be to try to engage new people on another forum.

One can never tell...

Please do not, DO NOT, suggest he come over and spend more time in
r.a.student (he already crossposts there.)

Sure as hell, some student pilot will believe his increadible bull**** and
go get themselves killed.

Of course numbnuts would proably tell him he didn't die correctly because
that's not how it happens in MSFS.

Jay Beckman