Instrument departure, non-IFR airport

Sam Spade wrote:


If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want. But,
the rub comes in them providing you a clearance into (presumably
1200-foot floor Class E airspace without some procedure that assures
obstacle clearance until reaching the minimum IFR altitude.

Not ATC's problem. That's 100% on the pilot.

Newps wrote:


Sam Spade wrote:


If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want.
But, the rub comes in them providing you a clearance into (presumably
1200-foot floor Class E airspace without some procedure that assures
obstacle clearance until reaching the minimum IFR altitude.


Not ATC's problem. That's 100% on the pilot.


I know what you're saying, but I really do wonder. I guess it varies
with the facility. SCT has been known to get spooked about such things.

In any case, the OP went back to SCT and found out they don't want their
airspace clobbered with an airport in a really tight airspace situation.

Sam Spade wrote:


I know what you're saying, but I really do wonder. I guess it varies
with the facility. SCT has been known to get spooked about such things.

In any case, the OP went back to SCT and found out they don't want their
airspace clobbered with an airport in a really tight airspace situation.

That's perfectly understandable because you might end up shutting down a
busy airport for one lousy IFR departure. But that's the reason and why
they wouldn't just tell somebody that is difficult to understand.

On Mar 2, 4:13 pm, Newps wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

I know what you're saying, but I really do wonder. I guess it varies
with the facility. SCT has been known to get spooked about such things.

In any case, the OP went back to SCT and found out they don't want their
airspace clobbered with an airport in a really tight airspace situation.

That's perfectly understandable because you might end up shutting down a
busy airport for one lousy IFR departure. But that's the reason and why
they wouldn't just tell somebody that is difficult to understand.

But does SCT have the authority to refuse service to an airport
because of inconvenience? They can certainly delay a departure, but
outright refuse? What if its the middle of the night and there is
very little traffic?

And what if someone crashed trying to scud run to Riverside because an
IFR departure were refused? Wouldn't that get the TRACON manager in
trouble?

Newps wrote:


Sam Spade wrote:



I know what you're saying, but I really do wonder. I guess it varies
with the facility. SCT has been known to get spooked about such things.

In any case, the OP went back to SCT and found out they don't want
their airspace clobbered with an airport in a really tight airspace
situation.


That's perfectly understandable because you might end up shutting down a
busy airport for one lousy IFR departure. But that's the reason and why
they wouldn't just tell somebody that is difficult to understand.

I also have serious heartburn with some "SOP" obstacle departure
procedure that probably was not "Terpsed" by AVN. Once ATC issues that
puppy they put the FAA on the hook for departure obstacle clearance.

On Mar 2, 4:13 pm, Newps wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

I know what you're saying, but I really do wonder. I guess it varies
with the facility. SCT has been known to get spooked about such things.

In any case, the OP went back to SCT and found out they don't want their
airspace clobbered with an airport in a really tight airspace situation.

That's perfectly understandable because you might end up shutting down a
busy airport for one lousy IFR departure. But that's the reason and why
they wouldn't just tell somebody that is difficult to understand.


It is possible that, given a situation in which the departure becomes
a problem [ goes NORDO or does not "tag"] that KRAL is sufficiently
far from the ONT final approach course so as to not interfere with
arrivals, but KRIR is not far enough? That could be one logic that,
from the SoCal perspective, makes a difference between the two
airports.

wrote:

Recently I tried to depart from an non-tower airport that has no
instrument approach procedure, and hence no instrument departure. I
was told that I could not get a clearance on the ground, even with
VIFNO etc., and that I would have to depart VFR and pick my clearance
up while airborne. The recommendation made to me by both TRACON and
local FSDO for departing IFR with a low ceiling was to get a special
VFR clearance into the towered airport 6 miles away [which has an
approach and then depart IFR from there.

My question is, if I take responsibility for staying away from the
rocks [assume a low ceiling, above the tops of small hills, but below
minimum vectoring altitude], shouln't I be able to get a clearance on
the ground?

Alan, PP-AMEL-IA


Yes, I used to do it all the time from 7N1. It is called a void time
clearance. Who told you that this couldn't be done?

You have are on your own, however, until you enter controlled airspace
so you have to realize that. The good thing is that they know you are
coming, have cleared a hole for you and will pick you up immediately
when you call.

Matt

On Mar 1, 11:51 pm, wrote:

Recently I tried to depart from an non-tower airport that has no
instrument approach procedure, and hence no instrument departure. I
was told that I could not get a clearance on the ground, even with
VIFNO etc., and that I would have to depart VFR and pick my clearance
up while airborne. The recommendation made to me by both TRACON and
local FSDO for departing IFR with a low ceiling was to get a special
VFR clearance into the towered airport 6 miles away [which has an
approach and then depart IFR from there.

My question is, if I take responsibility for staying away from the
rocks [assume a low ceiling, above the tops of small hills, but below
minimum vectoring altitude], shouln't I be able to get a clearance on
the ground?


What's VIFNO? Did they say why they couldn't issue a clearance while
you were on the ground? It's not prohibited by FAAO 7110.65.

On 03/02/07 05:11, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
On Mar 1, 11:51 pm, wrote:

Recently I tried to depart from an non-tower airport that has no
instrument approach procedure, and hence no instrument departure. I
was told that I could not get a clearance on the ground, even with
VIFNO etc., and that I would have to depart VFR and pick my clearance
up while airborne. The recommendation made to me by both TRACON and
local FSDO for departing IFR with a low ceiling was to get a special
VFR clearance into the towered airport 6 miles away [which has an
approach and then depart IFR from there.

My question is, if I take responsibility for staying away from the
rocks [assume a low ceiling, above the tops of small hills, but below
minimum vectoring altitude], shouln't I be able to get a clearance on
the ground?


What's VIFNO?

Google says: "Void IF Not Off by".

Did they say why they couldn't issue a clearance while
you were on the ground? It's not prohibited by FAAO 7110.65.




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On Mar 2, 9:15 am, Mark Hansen wrote:

What's VIFNO?


Google says: "Void IF Not Off by".


FAAH 7340.1 says CVINO