Mystery turn control device on older jets

On May 6, 5:18 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I recall seeing, long ago, a sort of large knob on the pedestal of a jet (I
can't remember which kind) that, when turned, put the aircraft into a
coordinated turn ... at least if I recall correctly. No modern jets seem to
have anything like this. Am I imagining things, or did something like this
exist on earlier jets. I recall it being called a flight director, I think,
but the behavior doesn't seem to be like the devices people call flight
directors today.

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Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

Robert

Luke Skywalker wrote

On May 6, 5:18 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I recall seeing, long ago, a sort of large knob on the pedestal of a
jet (I can't remember which kind) that, when turned, put the aircraft
into a coordinated turn ...
Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

I've never seen a rudder trim knob that would put a 707/727 into a
coordinated turn.
I stand by my "autopilot turn knob" answer. Of course, if he had not
mentioned "coordinated turn", I would agree on "Rudder Trim Knob".

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
46.128...
Luke Skywalker wrote

On May 6, 5:18 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I recall seeing, long ago, a sort of large knob on the pedestal of a
jet (I can't remember which kind) that, when turned, put the aircraft
into a coordinated turn ...
Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

I've never seen a rudder trim knob that would put a 707/727 into a
coordinated turn.
I stand by my "autopilot turn knob" answer. Of course, if he had not
mentioned "coordinated turn", I would agree on "Rudder Trim Knob".

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

on the B-52, it sets the cross wind crab angle to the gear for take off and
landing
BT

Luke Skywalker writes:

Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

I thought of that, but this was larger ... and you wouldn't normally use
rudder trim to turn the aircraft.

I guess it could be a manual turn controller for the autopilot, as Bob said,
but I wonder how it was used and why it's gone now. Maybe it was something
like control wheel steering (also apparently not used much in practice).

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On May 6, 8:23 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Luke Skywalker writes:
Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

I thought of that, but this was larger ... and you wouldn't normally use
rudder trim to turn the aircraft.

I guess it could be a manual turn controller for the autopilot, as Bob said,
but I wonder how it was used and why it's gone now. Maybe it was something
like control wheel steering (also apparently not used much in practice).

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In a Boeing I doubt it was Control Wheel steering. CWS (in a older
boeing at least...and even in the -300 series 737) was done by the
Actual Control wheel...IT with a certian force you moved the control
where and it then "froze" whereever you left it. I find/found it
useful in turbulence...but you had to recognize that in that mode it
didnt recognize any pitch or roll commands. It has been so long since
I flew a -200 737 but I seem to recall that aileron trim was also a
"large" knob on the pedastal...

I've never seen ANY autopilot controls on the pedestal for two
reasons. First they are out of "normal line of sight" which the FAA
requires and second they are vunerable (at least in the 737) to jump
seat riders putting their feet on the pedestal.

The early 737/300's had a "blade" knob for the electric Rudder trim.
This caused at least one accident when a person (on the ground) put
their foot on the pedestal and part of their shoe inadvertantly moved
the knob and ran the rudder trim full deflection.

Now it is a knurled knob to prevent that and there is a two inch guard
around the pedestal...

Sorry I cant help more

Robert

Luke Skywalker wrote in
ups.com:

On May 6, 8:23 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Luke Skywalker writes:
Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if
it was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you
were looking at the rudder trim knob.

I thought of that, but this was larger ... and you wouldn't normally
use rudder trim to turn the aircraft.

I guess it could be a manual turn controller for the autopilot, as
Bob said, but I wonder how it was used and why it's gone now. Maybe
it was something like control wheel steering (also apparently not
used much in practice).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

In a Boeing I doubt it was Control Wheel steering. CWS (in a older
boeing at least...and even in the -300 series 737) was done by the
Actual Control wheel...IT with a certian force you moved the control
where and it then "froze" whereever you left it. I find/found it
useful in turbulence...but you had to recognize that in that mode it
didnt recognize any pitch or roll commands. It has been so long since
I flew a -200 737 but I seem to recall that aileron trim was also a
"large" knob on the pedastal...

I've never seen ANY autopilot controls on the pedestal for two
reasons. First they are out of "normal line of sight" which the FAA
requires and second they are vunerable (at least in the 737) to jump
seat riders putting their feet on the pedestal.

70 and 72 had them on the pedestal, essentially the same autopilot as
the 737-200, but without CWS, but that's not what terrorist boi is
talking about.



Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Luke Skywalker writes:

Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.

I thought of that, but this was larger ... and you wouldn't normally
use rudder trim to turn the aircraft.

I guess it could be a manual turn controller for the autopilot, as Bob
said, but I wonder how it was used and why it's gone now.

Keeep wondering fjukktard.

Unless you send me the 500, of course.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote:
Luke Skywalker writes:


Well not remembering which jet leaves the field wide open...but if it
was on the pedestal of a B737 200 series or a B727 or a B707 you were
looking at the rudder trim knob.


I thought of that, but this was larger ... and you wouldn't normally use
rudder trim to turn the aircraft.

I guess it could be a manual turn controller for the autopilot, as Bob said,
but I wonder how it was used and why it's gone now. Maybe it was something
like control wheel steering (also apparently not used much in practice).



Take a look at this pictu

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1149076/L/

At the very bottom center of the photo is the rudder trim knob. Ahead
of it, on the center console, forward of the nav & com radios, and just
below the 3 fuel cutoff levers, is a smaller, grey knob. This is the
autopilot manual turn (and pitch) control knob. It is used to turn the
aircraft left or right, if you're not using a heading &/or nav mode,
while the autopilot is engaged. It is also used to command nose up or
down, unless you are coupled in "approach" mode.

Happy flying!
Scott Skylane

Scott Skylane writes:

Take a look at this pictu

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1149076/L/

At the very bottom center of the photo is the rudder trim knob. Ahead
of it, on the center console, forward of the nav & com radios, and just
below the 3 fuel cutoff levers, is a smaller, grey knob. This is the
autopilot manual turn (and pitch) control knob. It is used to turn the
aircraft left or right, if you're not using a heading &/or nav mode,
while the autopilot is engaged. It is also used to command nose up or
down, unless you are coupled in "approach" mode.

That could be it. I recall it being the size of the lower knob, but it was so
long ago (when I was a child) that I could be remembering things incorrectly
and confusing one control with another. I was interested in planes even then
but I knew nothing about cockpit controls at the time.

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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Scott Skylane writes:

Take a look at this pictu

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1149076/L/

At the very bottom center of the photo is the rudder trim knob.
Ahead of it, on the center console, forward of the nav & com radios,
and just below the 3 fuel cutoff levers, is a smaller, grey knob.
This is the autopilot manual turn (and pitch) control knob. It is
used to turn the aircraft left or right, if you're not using a
heading &/or nav mode, while the autopilot is engaged. It is also
used to command nose up or down, unless you are coupled in "approach"
mode.

That could be it. I recall it being the size of the lower knob, but
it was so long ago (when I was a child) that I could be remembering
things incorrectly and confusing one control with another. I was
interested in planes even then but I knew nothing about cockpit
controls at the time.


You're an idiot, you don't fly you have no idea what you're talking
about.

Berti e