Glider Cockpit with 4 Varios! Why?

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:35:28 -0700, Ian wrote:

On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince me.

How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Depends on which type you pick for your backup vario.

I have a single electric system fitted. I use an SDI C4 as my main
vario and a Borgelt B.40 as backup. Normally the electrical system drives
both varios, but the B.40 has its factory-supplied backup system. A 9v PP3
strapped to it and it has a three position power switch (Ext-Off-Int) to
select its power source. As the B.40 is said to run for about 24 hours on
a PP3, its as likely to get me home as a mechanical unit. I swap the PP3
annually.

The B.40 was no harder to install than a mechanical backup, eliminates
capacity vs pressure sensor problems and is safer in backup mode than a
mechanical because it is an audio vario.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

A PP3 battery packs in when it is cold as I know to my cost. I lost a
diamond height claim because a brand new batttery in the logger failed. A
suck and blow vario never suffers from lack of power.
If you are not going high enough to get that cold the the below is a
perfectly reasonable approach.

A man with two watches is never quite sure of the time.

At 23:45 16 July 2008, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:35:28 -0700, Ian wrote:

On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Depends on which type you pick for your backup vario.

I have a single electric system fitted. I use an SDI C4 as my main
vario and a Borgelt B.40 as backup. Normally the electrical system
drives
both varios, but the B.40 has its factory-supplied backup system. A 9v
PP3
strapped to it and it has a three position power switch (Ext-Off-Int) to
select its power source. As the B.40 is said to run for about 24 hours
on
a PP3, its as likely to get me home as a mechanical unit. I swap the PP3
annually.

The B.40 was no harder to install than a mechanical backup, eliminates
capacity vs pressure sensor problems and is safer in backup mode than a
mechanical because it is an audio vario.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

At 23:45 16 July 2008, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:35:28 -0700, Ian wrote:

On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

In my ASW-20 I have a 302 and a Winter mechanical vario and I think if
your a serious XC pilot it is important to have a good TE compensated
mechanical vario on board and heres why:

Ely Nevada July 2006: I was 145 miles north on a big day[ way the hell out
in the middle of nowhere BTW ] and slowly my 302 starts acting strange and
slowly, over about 15 minutes my ASI goes to zero. Well the pitot pressure
drives the 302 and let me tell you, without it, the 302 is completely
unusable. I was having a big flight and did not want to turn off the
302, because I would lose the logger. So I took a piece of chewing gum
and a piece of paper turned down the volume to zero and covered the
instrument face. I flew 6 more hours and turned in a 1000+ km OLC claim.
the next day I pulled my pitot line and blew a bug out of the front of it,
problem solved. What a bug is doing coring a thermal at 17,000' I'll
never know, maybe he was a hang glider pilot in his past life.

Labor Day weekend 2004 Salida Colorado.
Flying with the Boulder Club, I get in my ship and [ It was gonna be cold]
with my big boots on, catch and break off the power switch...hmmmm,bummer,
If I get out of the launch line, [ this was going to be another big day ]
I would lose my flying buddies and the chance to max out the day.
So I took off with a Garmin 12 logger and only my Winter Mechanical vario
and did 400 miles.

It takes a few minutes to get used to flying with the mechanical, silent
vario in your scan [ with the 302 I almost Never look at it, I fly 99% by
the tones] but after a bit, the peace and quiet is NICE, for a change.
These were a couple of experiences I had where having a simple, but high
quality T.E. compensated Mechanical vario in the panel saved the day!

Nick Kennedy
XS & TF
How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Depends on which type you pick for your backup vario.

I have a single electric system fitted. I use an SDI C4 as my main
vario and a Borgelt B.40 as backup. Normally the electrical system
drives
both varios, but the B.40 has its factory-supplied backup system. A 9v
PP3
strapped to it and it has a three position power switch (Ext-Off-Int) to
select its power source. As the B.40 is said to run for about 24 hours
on
a PP3, its as likely to get me home as a mechanical unit. I swap the PP3
annually.

The B.40 was no harder to install than a mechanical backup, eliminates
capacity vs pressure sensor problems and is safer in backup mode than a
mechanical because it is an audio vario.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

If you think that panel was to much then check this one out!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tupperw...ot/2285936536/
Loads of gadgets in this one!
TP

If you think that panel was to much then check this one out!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tupperw...ot/2285936536/
Loads of gadgets in this one!
TP

At 02:56 17 July 2008, Nick Kennedy wrote:
At 23:45 16 July 2008, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:35:28 -0700, Ian wrote:

On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

Haven't yet seen an electric vario that is as pretty as my 80mm Sage.

Jim

ps:They also all have ****y little displays.

On Jul 16, 4:57*pm, ContestID67 wrote:
http://www.canadabizmart.com/bootstr...ectacular-cock...

This web site has some nice pictures of aircraft cockpits, including
two gliders. *If you scroll down you will find an LS-4 flying
inverted.

What caught my eye is that there appears to be four (4) varios in the
instrument panel. *My soaring friends have been scratching our heads
trying to understand why you would ever need four varios in a single
glider.

Can anyone give some valid reasons why this would be useful?

Thanks, John DeRosa

I suggest that as he's upside down and still going up, or do varios
reverse their lift/sink needle positions if you're upside down? :-),
and his varios don't appear to agree with each other anyway, it might
be more useful to just get his tail number so you can scarper if he
joins you in a thermal.

Martin

I think we should clarify by "electric" we actually mean "audio" Most
electric varios still get there information by pnuematics ie a static and
TE probe and are driven electrically. I had an electrically compensated
Ball vario (no TE Probe and absolutly hated it. Its compensation changed
during the flight with temperature and was very confusing. Using the SN10
now and 66's discarded Sage from a glider or two ago. I use the Sage
mostly when low and scratching to help center small lift and the SN10 for
everything else.

At 21:55 16 July 2008, kirk.stant wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:35=A0pm, Ian wrote:
On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Ian "All mechanical cockpit" J

I'm totally in the "all electric" camp. Tossed my mechanical 8 years
ago, replaced with a nice Ilec electric backup (with audio), and
haven't had a problem since. Primary is an SN10. Both agree all the
time.

And 2 electrical systems are only slightly more work than one, if done
at the same time.

Given more funds, I would replace the Ilec with something that has
electronic TE, so that losing the probe wouldn't fail both varios - my
current single point of failure...

Mechanical varios belong with barographs - on the shelf behind the
club bar. Especially on club ships, where good varios with audio are
really needed, yet rare (at least in the US).

Cheers,

Kirk
66

I think we should clarify by "electric" we actually mean "audio" Most
electric varios still get there information by pnuematics ie a static and
TE probe and are driven electrically. I had an electrically compensated
Ball vario (no TE Probe and absolutly hated it. Its compensation changed
during the flight with temperature and was very confusing. Using the SN10
now and 66's discarded Sage from a glider or two ago. I use the Sage
mostly when low and scratching to help center small lift and the SN10 for
everything else.

At 21:55 16 July 2008, kirk.stant wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:35=A0pm, Ian wrote:
On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Ian "All mechanical cockpit" J

I'm totally in the "all electric" camp. Tossed my mechanical 8 years
ago, replaced with a nice Ilec electric backup (with audio), and
haven't had a problem since. Primary is an SN10. Both agree all the
time.

And 2 electrical systems are only slightly more work than one, if done
at the same time.

Given more funds, I would replace the Ilec with something that has
electronic TE, so that losing the probe wouldn't fail both varios - my
current single point of failure...

Mechanical varios belong with barographs - on the shelf behind the
club bar. Especially on club ships, where good varios with audio are
really needed, yet rare (at least in the US).

Cheers,

Kirk
66

I think we should clarify by "electric" we actually mean "audio" Most
electric varios still get there information by pnuematics ie a static and
TE probe and are driven electrically. I had an electrically compensated
Ball vario (no TE Probe and absolutly hated it. Its compensation changed
during the flight with temperature and was very confusing. Using the SN10
now and 66's discarded Sage from a glider or two ago. I use the Sage
mostly when low and scratching to help center small lift and the SN10 for
everything else.

At 21:55 16 July 2008, kirk.stant wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:35=A0pm, Ian wrote:
On 16 Jul, 20:37, Bruce wrote:

So why install mechanical varios in a new high tech glide? Convince
me.

How well do electric ones react to nearby lightning bolts? Apart from
that, isn't it an awful lot easier to fit a mechanical vario than it
is to fit a complete second electrical system?

Ian "All mechanical cockpit" J

I'm totally in the "all electric" camp. Tossed my mechanical 8 years
ago, replaced with a nice Ilec electric backup (with audio), and
haven't had a problem since. Primary is an SN10. Both agree all the
time.

And 2 electrical systems are only slightly more work than one, if done
at the same time.

Given more funds, I would replace the Ilec with something that has
electronic TE, so that losing the probe wouldn't fail both varios - my
current single point of failure...

Mechanical varios belong with barographs - on the shelf behind the
club bar. Especially on club ships, where good varios with audio are
really needed, yet rare (at least in the US).

Cheers,

Kirk
66