gun discharge in cockpit.

WingFlaps wrote:
On Mar 31, 6:37 am, Dan wrote:
On Mar 30, 1:34 pm, WingFlaps wrote:



You have been a lucky man, but if you gamble you will lose
eventually.
Is that some sort of inane threat?

"Luck" has nothing to do with it, moron.


Only if the threat is perceived as coming from truth. Yes, your family
has been lucky that there has not been a firearms accident. If there
were no guns at all in your household the probability of an accident
would be even lower.

Cheers


I only have one child who also grew up with firearms in the house and
has lived to 17 next month to tell about it. Luck had noting to do with
him not getting hurt training did. In fact one time when he was 4 or 5
my wife had him with her when she went into a sporting goods store to
buy me a xmas present. When he saw the gun rack he made it very clear to
everyone there that he wasn't supposed to be around guns if I wasn't there.

There are lots of things in the average home that can hurt or kill a
child. Part of the parental responsibility is to teach them not to use
such items in a way that could do harm.

On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:


I know you think IPSC shooting is a game and has little to do with the
real world but it's power factor system is as good as any of calculating
the force projected on target.

Note: the .45 acp round above is the Hydro Shock which can be found in
my carry gun.

Hang on -- IPSC is a great exercise in competitive shooting -- but it
is just that -- a competition -- a game!

No one is shooting back, no one is failing to stop, the only stress is
the timer.

When Col Jeff Cooper started IPSC, he developed the power factor
rating to ensure everyone was using real combat pistols, and not
downloaded BB rounds that didn't sound and recoil like the real thing.

But -- and this is an important qualifier -- there is *no evidence*
that the slight variations in power available in the different rounds
insures a first shot knockdown. There are simply too many variables.

Thus the debate rages between the .45 and 9mm adherents.

My reasons -- however flawed -- follow (in no particular order):

1) I can buy twice the 9 mm ammo for the same number of .45 rounds
(The price of ammo will continue to rise) and thereby practice far
more often.

2) There is no proven appreciable difference in the effects on the
human body between 9mm and 40 or 45 rounds,

3) the 9mm capacity is near twice that per magazine of a 45,

4) I can put two rounds downrange with a 9mm before the muzzle flip
cycle is complete with a .45. or 40

5) If I'm using a handgun it's to fight my way to a shotgun or a rifle
or to cover (or both)



Dan Mc

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-31, Dan wrote:

Something to keep in mind about Law Enforcement -- and this has been a
subtle shift over the last 30 years -- LE has shifted it's focus from
"protection" to apprehending the perpetrator.

That's all they ever COULD do. Patrolling is mere "window dressing", and in
certain areas does have some effect, but all in all, it's for show.

Not only that, but courts have repeatedly said they have no duty to
protect
an individual. The police do not have to protect you, and you cannot hold
them accountable for failing to do so. They only have to try to find the
perpetrator.

Even an individual with a court restraining order.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:


I know you think IPSC shooting is a game and has little to do with the
real world but it's power factor system is as good as any of calculating
the force projected on target.

Note: the .45 acp round above is the Hydro Shock which can be found in
my carry gun.

Hang on -- IPSC is a great exercise in competitive shooting -- but it
is just that -- a competition -- a game!

For a practical exercise, try IDPA. No tricked out guns, just pretty much
factory stock (with a few common tweaks).

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


But it does define death. The wold is a more violent place almost
everywhere these days. Lots of things are contributing, but there is no
question about it, the availability of guns in the US is unquestionably
responsible for the staggering murder rate which is unequalled amongst
"first world" nations. If you guys and the NRA are so interesed in
responsible gun wonership, then you should be supporting restrictions on
ownership, not opposing them.

Bertie


Then why is it that the cities in the US with the harshest gun laws also
have the highest rate of violent crimes that use guns?

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in
:

On Mar 31, 5:22 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

But it does define death. The wold is a more violent place almost
everywhere these days. Lots of things are contributing, but there is
no question about it, the availability of guns in the US is --
unquestionably -- responsible for the staggering murder rate which
is unequalled amongst "first world" nations. If you guys and the NRA
are so interesed in responsible gun wonership, then you should be
supporting restrictions on ownership, not opposing them.

Bertie
That statement is absolutely, positively, and profoundly false.

There are many countries with gun ownership rates similar to or higher
than the US, yet those have very low murder rates. The reverse is also
true.

Finland, Switzerland, and New Zealand have virtually identical gun
ownership rates to the US, and yet their murder rates are
significantly lower than those of surrounding countries.


That's because everyone in Switzerland and Finland are military reserve.
They don't own the guns, the state does.
There's no evidence that murder rates are higher in those countries
with higher levels of gun ownership. The only way to show such
relationships is cherry picking a few countries to make the
comparison.

Israel, with the highest gun ownership rate in the world, has a murder
rate 40% below Canada's.

Again, the military.....


So if the gun in my house were owned by the government instead of me it
would some how know that and not allow itself to shoot someone it wasn't
supposed to?

Really, how's that work?

Flydive wrote:


So, by this you mean that is not guns that are dangerous, but the
American population? Well then maybe it would be a good idea to ban guns
over there........

Unfortunately yes it is the American population that is the problem. And
we've tried gun localized gun bans and they don't work. These people
that break the law have a bad habit of ignoring gun laws as well.

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:


I know you think IPSC shooting is a game and has little to do with the
real world but it's power factor system is as good as any of calculating
the force projected on target.

Note: the .45 acp round above is the Hydro Shock which can be found in
my carry gun.
Hang on -- IPSC is a great exercise in competitive shooting -- but it
is just that -- a competition -- a game!

For a practical exercise, try IDPA. No tricked out guns, just pretty much
factory stock (with a few common tweaks).




Which is pretty much what Cooper and the boys had when they created
IPSC. The gaming game later. And as I mentioned last week a lot of those
gaming additions have become combat modifications.

Dan wrote:
On Mar 31, 4:51 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

Google Miami FBI Shootout

Don't need to.

Are you involved in containing/stopping heavily armed bank robbers? If
so, you need to be equally armed.

But if you are a private citizen, you will probably end up in jail if
you try to STOP fleeing robbers.


Dan Mc


The point was that after the FBI put a god awful number of wounds into
those suspects (who for the most part were armed with Mini-14s) was that
the 9mm didn't have the stopping power to deal with a suspect even if
all they were hyped up on was adrenaline.

There is a reason that the US Army SF, FBI Hostage Rescue and pretty
much all major SWAT teams have switched to either the .45 or .40.

Dan wrote:
On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:


I know you think IPSC shooting is a game and has little to do with the
real world but it's power factor system is as good as any of calculating
the force projected on target.

Note: the .45 acp round above is the Hydro Shock which can be found in
my carry gun.

Hang on -- IPSC is a great exercise in competitive shooting -- but it
is just that -- a competition -- a game!

No one is shooting back, no one is failing to stop, the only stress is
the timer.


Nope and no one is shooting back a new US ARMY recruit during basic
training. But some how the military has learned how to simulate stress
in order for them to be able to do it when it's the real thing.

I say IPSC and IDPA (those may be the wrong initials for the later) are
the pest way out there to create that stress in a training environment.