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#21
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Chad Irby wrote: In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Chad Irby wrote in news:vSF8c.340179$Po1.38448 @twister.tampabay.rr.com: ...and if he had, it would be in his records (which have already been released), clearly and unequivocally. Not all his records were released. His discharge papers were. A failed HRP would be right in there, and next to impossible to erase. Since it is not, it's hogwash. Right. I mean, after all, someone like George W. Bush could never get someone in the government to do him any favors. Not at that level. Tampering with HRP documents is the sort of thing that would get you some prison time. Let's be real here. During Reagan/Bush Sr. we had Iran/Contra. How many people went to prison over that? It's a simple matter to have someone doctor, or remove, documentation from any branch of the government. -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#22
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Buzzer wrote: On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:39:58 -0700, Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: by James Ridgeway A New Theory for Bush's Low, Low Profile in the Alabama Guard March 24 - 30, 2004 Mondo Washington this week: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...e=200431401040 http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...e=200431402242 Fairly interesting reading about Bush and what was going on in the guard back then... According to the second article: "The air-to-air missiles in the jets were intended to destroy Soviet bombers and intercontinental ballistic missiles in midair before they could strike the continental United States." Whatever the truth here, I find it difficult to believe they'd discharge ANYBODY who could shoot down an ICBM... |
#23
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Chad Irby wrote: In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Please. 20 years ago a bunch of criminals set up their own foreign policy group outside the government and how much jail time did they do? About the same amount of time a bunch of criminals who discussed assassinating US Congressmen did. Kerry voted against it and promptly left the group. Try again. -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#24
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"Tempest" wrote in message ... Chad Irby wrote: In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Please. 20 years ago a bunch of criminals set up their own foreign policy group outside the government and how much jail time did they do? About the same amount of time a bunch of criminals who discussed assassinating US Congressmen did. Kerry voted against it and promptly left the group. But Kerry wasn't even in the City and then he wasn't at the meeting ... Try again. I'll bet Kerry lied a third time and you are bluffing. |
#25
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Kevin Brooks wrote: "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news In article , Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: by James Ridgeway A New Theory for Bush's Low, Low Profile in the Alabama Guard March 24 - 30, 2004 Mondo Washington this week: Here's a new twist to the George W. Bush AWOL mystery, in which almost no one remembers him fulfilling his duties with the Alabama National Guard. According to an investigation by the Spokane, Washington, Spokesman-Review, Bush may have been involuntarily removed from being a pilot due to little-known Human Reliability Regulations. These were rules to screen out military personnel for mental, physical, and emotional fitness before letting them handle nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The regulations affected thousands of pilots and were used to suspend two Washington State pilots on suspicion of drug use, although in the end both men received honorable discharges. snip The government's reaction to questions about the human reliability regs merits attention. The White House gave no comment to a Spokesman-Review reporter, referring questions to the Defense Department. The National Guard Bureau, now run by a Bush pick from Texas, said it was under orders not to discuss the story. The bureau's chief historian also told the Spokane paper he was under orders not to discuss the topic. The freedom of information officer at the bureau said her people stopped taking requests on Bush's military service last month and now refer all questions regarding it to the Pentagon. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0412/mondo2.php No -- it is a much simpler answer. Since AL ANG was transitioning from RF-84Fs to RF-4s, they would, naturally, place their most senior pilots (Capt's, Maj's, Lt col's, etc) ahead of a lowly short timer Lt (he had only a short remaining duty obligation) transferring in from Texas. As I understand it, the RF-4 checkout program was several months long. The AL ANG simply didn't want to use their resources on him. Actually, he was only performing split training assemblies with them (or more accurately, "equivalent training"); his request to transfer to another unit had been turned down. His own unit had just become an operational conversion/training unit (first for the F-102, then for both the F-102 and F-101, and then for the F-101 exclusively for a number of years), and given the number of higher-hour pilots then leaving the active component, one can understand why they were not chomping at the bit to retain the flying services of then 1LT Bush. Kind of funny that some folks are still trying to make that dog hunt--this was a non-issue four years ago, and it remains a non-issue today. Maybe to you, but to the swing voters it has legs. Bush is making his integrity an issue, and this blows a hole right through it. Maybe we will next hear where the esteemed Mr. Clark now recollects the *truth* behind Bush's service record (well, that is as soon as Clark can determine exactly what he wants *that* particular "truth" to look like, based upon his evident skills at fabrication). What fabrication? Please provide proof. You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been collaborated, right? -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#26
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Robey Price wrote: After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Orval Fairbairn confessed the following: No -- it is a much simpler answer. Since AL ANG was transitioning from RF-84Fs to RF-4s, they would, naturally, place their most senior pilots (Capt's, Maj's, Lt col's, etc) ahead of a lowly short timer Lt (he had only a short remaining duty obligation) transferring in from Texas. The pedant in me must point out, GWB did not "transfer" from the TX ANG to the AL ANG. He merely got permission to drill in AL while retaining his TX ANG affiliation for reporting purposes. He didn't get permission. His request was denied. He left TX anyway. He would have ZERO chance of flying the RF-4 regardless of rank. The most likely scenario was that GWB put in a little (we're talking VERY little) "VFR face time," but literally didn't do anything but walk around unsupervised, drink coffee, have mock dog-fights with his right hand shooting the watch on his left wrist while telling, "There I was..." stories. Having said that, you are correct that a guy with very little obligation left would NOT normally check out in the next airplane, doing so adds another two or three years to your service obligation. As I understand it, the RF-4 checkout program was several months long. The AL ANG simply didn't want to use their resources on him. Back then the B (as in Basic) course for Fighter/Attack/Recce pilots was six months. The Tx (Transition) course for guys coming from similar missions would run approximately three months...that's if you attended RTU fulltime (back then that would have been with the 363d TRW at Shaw AFB). Local checkouts, part-time would take longer. But the proper conclusion is not that the AL ANG didn't want to use their resources (RTU slots) on GWB, but rather GWB had ZERO reason to expect/anticipate flying the RF-4. It's not applicable in his case. Juvat -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#27
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On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:05:28 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote: "Buzzer" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:39:58 -0700, Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: by James Ridgeway A New Theory for Bush's Low, Low Profile in the Alabama Guard March 24 - 30, 2004 Mondo Washington this week: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...e=200431401040 http://www.spokesmanreview.com/break...e=200431402242 Fairly interesting reading about Bush and what was going on in the guard back then... The story is a lie, the Texas ANG was conventional weapons only. "A second previously unreleased document obtained by the newspaper, a declassified Air Force Inspector General's report on the Washington case, states that human reliability rules applied to all Air National Guard units in the 1970s." Another lie? |
#28
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In article ,
Tempest wrote: Let's be real here. If we were being "real," this whole silly story would have died about four years back. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#29
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In article ,
Tempest wrote: Chad Irby wrote: In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Please. 20 years ago a bunch of criminals set up their own foreign policy group outside the government and how much jail time did they do? About the same amount of time a bunch of criminals who discussed assassinating US Congressmen did. Kerry voted against it and promptly left the group. ....and didn't tell any law enforcement officers about the conspiracy to kill members of the US Government. Try again. Don't have to, you admitted that he knew about it. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#30
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Kevin Brooks wrote: [snip] His own unit had just become an operational conversion/training unit (first for the F-102, then for both the F-102 and F-101, and then for the F-101 exclusively for a number of years), and given the number of higher-hour pilots then leaving the active component, one can understand why they were not chomping at the bit to retain the flying services of then 1LT Bush. Mr Brooks is making a gross error in suggesting that any ANG unit would bypass one of its "favorite sons" and bring on some unknown entity, Elmo Bowlogrits leaving active duty. The ANG doesn't work that way, once you're in...you're IN, no swinging dick active duty guy is taking your slot, unless you **** up and give them a reason to boot your ass out. Yeh the boys at Ellington were making a mission change from Air Defense to RTU...but the minimum number of hours to qualify for an IP slot were recommendations in some Commands (ANG) and hard and fast in others. Hell if he could use political influence to jump ahead of guys on the waiting list to get in the unit, he could have stayed...he wasn't forced out by some active duty pogue. Plus...my employer in 1972, hired just over 40 pilots, in 1973 approx 60 guys, in 1974 less than 20. So there just were not a large number of guys leaving active duty...meaning not a lot of active duty guys competing for precious few ANG slots. It would have been no problem for 1Lt Bush (army types use 1LT, CPT, MAJ while the Air Force types use 1Lt, Capt, Maj) to raise his hand and say, "I, GWB wanna fly jets! Just like I said I did when I interviewed for the slot in 1968," and he pink little body would have been in IPUG (Instructor Pilot Upgrade). He just didn't want to fly, going out of state and doing the bare minimum is proof of that. Flying was not a priority nor a passion for GWB, he tried it and didn't like it, so he quit. Nobody can dispute that. I have co-workers that tell stories of their ANG or Reserve time back in the good ole days (the 1970s)...when units would use their T-29 to go pick up guys out of state and bring them in for UTA weekends or FTPs. Not all units, but some units. Kind of funny that some folks are still trying to make that dog hunt--this was a non-issue four years ago, and it remains a non-issue today. To which Tempest responded: Maybe to you, but to the swing voters it has legs. Bush is making his integrity an issue, and this blows a hole right through it. GWB loyalists don't see it as an integrity issue. He served the minimum, and by golly if the minimums weren't good enough, lower the minimums! [Brooks waxed sarcastic WRT to Mr Clake...with an E and Tempest challenged him] What fabrication? Please provide proof. You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been collaborated, right? Tempest, sincerely...save your bandwidth. Please don't confuse him with the facts...his mind is made up. That's really the scary part, some folks are unwilling to entertain ANY doubt even after no WMD, no al-Qaeda to Iraq connection, no Saddam is an imminent threat proof. While the swing voters ponder, if Rove & Co were less than honest on those three things why believe them now. There was a former NSC guy (now living in MN) on local TV in St Paul tonight (they showed a pic of him and GWB in the Oval Office and two letters of commendation from Rice and Rumsfeld). This gentleman pretty much backed Clarke's assertion that Iraq was the primary target immediately after 9-11. Here's a great place to stay informed http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/index.htm Juvat |
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