Moving violation..NASA form?

Nasir ) wrote:

snip
So I dont know what the solution is to that, but with so much to learn and
remember as a student, you sometimes forget if permission is required or not
and being cautious you go ahead and ask, but you get chewed out sometimes
that leaves you wondering if you should have asked!

Always better to err on the side of caution and ask. I hear commercial
airline pilots confirming frequencies, headings, altitudes, and the such
all the time, despite reading back the request moments earlier.

Realize that there are always going to be some crabby controllers mixed in
with a lot of good ones. Never take their attitude personally, for you
could be the pinnacle of comm radio excellence and still get barked at by a
controller having a bad day/life.

--
Peter












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Realize that there are always going to be some crabby controllers mixed in
with a lot of good ones. Never take their attitude personally, for you
could be the pinnacle of comm radio excellence and still get barked at by
a
controller having a bad day/life.


Its amazing to me the number of controllers that have no aviation experience
outside of their jobs. This isn't to say that they are bad controllers
because of it. But, just like its good for pilots to visit the tower to see
how ATC works (can you still do that post-9/11?), I wonder how much training
the ATC folks get on "our" side of the fence.

My father was a PATCO controller (pre-Reagan firing) and he was in the
minority in that he had his PPL.

"Jeff Franks" wrote in message ...

My father was a PATCO controller (pre-Reagan firing) and he was in the
minority in that he had his PPL.

Yep, such is the nature of things. I saw a similar thing with ER docs and
Paramedics. Frequently neither new anything of the other's roles other than
what was in the official protocols (and sometimes a poor understanding of
that). I happened to be working in the ER one day when some intern was
standing their exasperated doing a cardiac consult with a unit in the field.
"I don't know what more they expect me to do for this patient." I pointed out
that they wanted her to tell them they could stop treatment on a dead patient.
Our protocols don't allow paramedics to discontinue treatment ONCE it is
started on our own authority.

"Nasir" wrote in message
. com...
|
| I had done a stop and go during my long x-country and while departing out
of
| the class D, I requested permission to change frequency. I was rather
| bluntly told that I dont need permission.

No, you do not need permission. It is courteous to inform the tower that you
are changing frequencies. The guy who barked at you is a jerk. He will not
be the last one of those you will run into, either.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Nasir" wrote in message
. com...
|
| I had done a stop and go during my long x-country and while departing out
of
| the class D, I requested permission to change frequency. I was rather
| bluntly told that I dont need permission.

No, you do not need permission. It is courteous to inform the tower that you
are changing frequencies. The guy who barked at you is a jerk. He will not
be the last one of those you will run into, either.

Just to clarify. If you are still within the boundaries of the
class D, then you do need permission. Once outside the class D
boundary, no permission or other communication is required.

My local tower has requested that pilots "go quietly" from the class
D and not request frequency change unless they are still within the
class D boundary. It cuts down on unnecessary radio clutter during
busy periods.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On 11/3/03 3:35 PM, in article
, "John Galban"
wrote:

My local tower has requested that pilots "go quietly" from the class
D and not request frequency change unless they are still within the
class D boundary. It cuts down on unnecessary radio clutter during
busy periods.


That's interesting. Where I learned to fly (ITH), the tower controllers
routinely instructed pilots to "report clear of the Class D airspace."
Diff'rent strokes, I guess.

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:07:43 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Nasir" wrote in message
.com...
|
| I had done a stop and go during my long x-country and while departing out
of
| the class D, I requested permission to change frequency. I was rather
| bluntly told that I dont need permission.

No, you do not need permission. It is courteous to inform the tower that you
are changing frequencies. The guy who barked at you is a jerk. He will not
be the last one of those you will run into, either.


While I was in training, I noticed that the tower would ask us where
we were going at some point after the initial contact following engine
start, if we didn't say so ourselves. Then when we took off, the CFI
would always tell the tower when we had departed the Class D airspace.
Depending on where we were going, cross country or just local for
maneuvering training, the tower would either approve a frequency
change or just thank us for informing him that we were departing the
class D space.

When I flew solo, and later after I got my PPL, I continued to inform
the tower when I departed it's airspace. Haven't flown into any
really busy airports though. Well I take that back, Portland is a
"busy" airport and we did not tell them when we departed their class C
space. The one I trained at isn't normally really busy.

Corky Scott

"Nasir" wrote in message .com...

I had done a stop and go during my long x-country and while departing out of
the class D, I requested permission to change frequency. I was rather
bluntly told that I dont need permission. I think in the back of my mind,
that little exchange was still in the back of my mind and maybe I partly
felt unncessary to bother the controller with my taxi request.

Ah! The solution here is remember something one of my first CFIs
told me.

There is no room for three people in the cockpit of a two-person
plane. Keep the controller OUT of the cockpit. If you get your
butt chewed out by a controller, it doesn't necessarily mean you
have done a thing wrong. You could have; or the controller could
have; or, the controller could be having a bad day and taking it
out on you.

Keep the controller out of your head and out of your plane and
move on. On the ground, assess the situation and figure out
what happened and how to do better in future, but don't let the
fear of being chewed out change your behavior.

Cheers,
Sydney

Nasir wrote:

Now I know I screwed up with not asking for taxi clearance but I believe I
did not need his permission to cross the other runway since 1, it was
closed, and 2, he had cleared me to taxi to the active which means I can
cross any runways on the way!

You're correct on both counts.

Should I be worried? Others been in this situation?

Don't worry about it. Been there (unfortunately).

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

All but a few perfect pilots have made such a mistake. Don't worry
about it, but try not to do it again.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



Anyway, he never asked me to "call the tower" or anything. I am wondering if
I am in trouble? Should I file that nasa form? I talked to my instructor and
was told it was no big deal since they never asked me to call the tower and
did not mention any action would be taken, but I still concerned.

Should I be worried? Others been in this situation?

thanks.

PS: posted this in the student newgroup too so others can learn. When in ANY
DOUBT, ASK!