Free flight computer software for iPad/iPhone

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE
software kinda beats the snot out of it.

IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and
GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a
transreflective display.

Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA
using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last
production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK
except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some
places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of
when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/
when it does.

The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the
Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW,
any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie
zone.

As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.

Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under
Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next
year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:33 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote: Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE software kinda beats the snot out of it. IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a transreflective display. Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/ when it does. The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW, any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie zone. As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8 equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets. Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us? -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |

Martin,

I may be wrong but I think the PNAs run windows CE 5, CE 6 or CE 7 not the mobile operating system.

My Ultimate Le uses CE 6.0 or CE 7.0. They are supported and run SeeYou PNA.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

According to the LK8000 forum they are working on a Linux version, but not for the moment an Android version. Naviter have said that they are working on an Android version of SYM but without any indication of their timetable. I imagine that they have been concentrating instead on Oudie 3 and Oudie IGC and are more interested in selling hardware than software which has to compete with the free rivals. The various Oudie models are a superb solution at the moment - the bright 5 inch screen they share with the Avier/V2/GliderGuider family makes such a difference and I am not aware of any new Android device which has an equally good screen. IMO if you need to buy now these are the best devices. In another year who knows?

Butterfly and Winpilot are both opting for iOS. I think the iPhone is too small and the iPad mini too big for most glider cockpits - and I don't think they are as bright as the Oudie's et al.

The dedicated devices (LX9000 and Zeus) mostly seem to run on Linux. What about the Clearnav?

On Monday, December 9, 2013 10:39:33 PM UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:

As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.


As Richard mentions, the low-end satnavs usually run 'Core' (bare-bones) Windows CE 6, which has been around since 2006. I think CE6 licenses are still available, and I suspect the diminishing number of standalone GPS navigators is due to the state of the market rather than software availability. I don't know how dependent soaring-specific Windows CE hardware is on the availability of new mainstream GPS devices.


Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
no longer be supported on devices running WM 6.

As far as 'sooner' goes, it's relatively straightforward to maintain the version of XCSoar for Windows CE at the moment, so there should be no pressing need to discontinue support for existing Windows CE devices even if new hardware becomes unavailable.

(XCSoar uses the same codebase for all supported devices. This means the majority of changes don't have to be duplicated for each different type of hardware, eg. Android, various Linux devices, Windows CE.)

I don't think any of the active XCSoar developers use Windows CE devices other than for basic testing though, so it will remain important that people report bugs as soon as possible via http://bugs.xcsoar.org/newticket - it's likely that even apparently obvious bugs will be missed otherwise.

Long term, it's my understanding that the most recent version of CE (Windows Embedded Compact 2013) breaks binary compatibility with earlier versions, meaning existing compilers won't generate program files that will work on CE2013. If the take up of CE2013 is anything like as weak as CE7, it may be irrelevant.

Per their site (XCSoar.org), XCSoar also runs on MacOS. I use a Dell Streak
5 and am extremely pleased with it. They're available in quantity on eBay,
etc. New ones are very expensive, used ones are dirt cheap.


"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Some day I may buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE
software kinda beats the snot out of it.

IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6: the Vertica V2 and
GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747, which uses a
transreflective display.

Since M$ has discontinued all support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA
using it has vanished from the market as the last units in the last
production batch been sold. AFAICT there are none available in the UK
except on eBay and similar sites. They are still advertised in some
places, but these ads are all marked 'out of stock' with no indication of
when new stock might appear. Some sites let you ask to be notified if/
when it does.

The Binatone series of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the
Binatone website. I suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW,
any WM 5/6 device and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie
zone.

As nobody has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8
equivalents of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have
priced their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of
or seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen
the end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets.

Consequently, sooner or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will
no longer be supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under
Android and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next
year. SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Thanks to all who sent in their iPad's or iPhone's serial numbers in the past couple of days in response to the resurrection of this thread.
At this point the the WinPilot for iOS app is available in App Store for the whooping $49:
For Europe:
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/...539701244&mt=8
For the USA:
https://itunes.apple.com/app/winpilo...540473050?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/...643348142&mt=8

However, we might still be able to offer a couple (Apple limits the number of testing devices) of free versions to people who are in position to fly in the next couple of days/weeks, and are able to exercise some of the more recent WP features, like connecting to existing hardware using the connection module:
http://www.butterfly-avionics.com/bu...rface-for-apps
or to people flying with the Butterfly vario, to which WinPilot connects natively.

Thanks for reading,

Jerry

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:38:08 -0800, Richard wrote:

On Monday, December 9, 2013 2:39:33 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 11:52:24 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote: Some day I may
buy an Oudie, but for now, my $100 Streak and FREE software kinda
beats the snot out of it. IIRC the Oudie runs under Windows Mobile 6:
the Vertica V2 and GliderGuider certainly do, as does the Mio S3747,
which uses a transreflective display. Since M$ has discontinued all
support for WM 5 and 6, almost every PNA using it has vanished from the
market as the last units in the last production batch been sold. AFAICT
there are none available in the UK except on eBay and similar sites.
They are still advertised in some places, but these ads are all marked
'out of stock' with no indication of when new stock might appear. Some
sites let you ask to be notified if/ when it does. The Binatone series
of satnavs are no longer even mentioned on the Binatone website. I
suspect the same applies to other makes as well. IOW, any WM 5/6 device
and the software that runs on it is now in the zombie zone. As nobody
has announced ot released anything that uses the Win 7 or 8 equivalents
of WM6, I guess that M$ either don't support satnavs or have priced
their software too high for this market. I haven't so far heard of or
seen any Android based replacements, so it could be that we've seen the
end of commodity PNAs and will be expected to run our navigation
systems on Android-based smartphones or tablets. Consequently, sooner
or later XCSoar, LK8000, Oudie and equivalents will no longer be
supported on devices running WM 6. XCSoar already runs under Android
and I hear that an Android version of LK8000 will be out next year.
SYM? I don't know what they're doing. Can anybody enlighten us? --
martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |

Martin,

I may be wrong but I think the PNAs run windows CE 5, CE 6 or CE 7 not
the mobile operating system.

Quite possible: But my main point remains: all the PNAs using these small
Windows OSen, be they WM or CE, all new stock seems to have vanished from
retail outlets in the UK and anywhere else that my UK-based browser was
bringing up: Binatone, Navigon, Mio - simply not around apart from small
numbers of new Mio in Germany ans some used or refurbished items on Ebay.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:29:06 -0800, waremark wrote:

According to the LK8000 forum they are working on a Linux version,

Yes, I know that and would be more than happy to run LK8000 on a
RaspberryPi provided I can find a suitable display. As a Libelle driver I
have quite heavily restricted panel space: a 4.3" display is just
possible, but a 5" display isn't and I've not seen a freestanding touch
screen that I could connect to an RPi in those sizes. Do you know of
anything like that or, better, something of similar size that runs Linux?



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:01:57 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Per their site (XCSoar.org), XCSoar also runs on MacOS. I use a Dell
Streak 5 and am extremely pleased with it. They're available in
quantity on eBay, etc. New ones are very expensive, used ones are dirt
cheap.

Unfortunately I can't find space on my panel for a 5" device or I'd have
snapped up a GliderGuider as soon as they appeared.

However, I have the problem solved another way for the short/medium term
as there's a 3.5" Mio with transreflective display heading my way as we
speak.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:52:13 -0800, simon.taylor.uk wrote:

Long term, it's my understanding that the most recent version of CE
(Windows Embedded Compact 2013) breaks binary compatibility with earlier
versions, meaning existing compilers won't generate program files that
will work on CE2013. If the take up of CE2013 is anything like as weak
as CE7, it may be irrelevant.

Exactly so, and I remember seeing a piece in The Register that M$ were
dropping support for all earlier releases at that point. Last week I
decided I needed either a Binatone R430 or the smaller transreflective
Mio: the near total absence of any suitable in-stock hardware (new or
used) outside of eBay shops came as a huge surprise: thats what triggered
me to start this thread.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |