irrefutable bottom line about picture ID's

"Roger Long" wrote in message


The real political divide is no longer between liberal and
conservative. It's between thinking and not thinking.

Interesting. It's usually left-leaning folks I've seen make this statement
as if they're the only ones capable of rational thought. It's like hearing
them say "you need to keep an open mind" while completely oblivious to the
fact that they've disregarded any validity in the opposing argument.

Very interesting, indeed.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

kontiki wrote in message ...
If have heard not one single tangible bit of evidence from anyone
that requiring a picture ID for pilot license will do anything
to justify the cost and inconvenience when it comes to enhancing
national security.

Homeland security is about making people feel safe. If this makes the
general public feel safe, then its probably worth the cost to them.
Impressions are all that count. In the real world, reality doesn't
make a difference.

-Robert

Andrew Gideon wrote in message gonline.com...
Roger Long wrote:

Now see my post above. The Republican spin doctors would jump on me and
say, "See, he's a flip flopper. First he says one thing, then he says
another. Disregard everything he says."

That's a pretty good example.

I watched Kerry try to explain his take on the Iraqi war, and I think he's
in deep trouble.

First he says we shouldn't be there, then he says we should be ready
to react, then he says we should be proactive, then he says he would
have sent troops there, then he says we need more troops. Talk about
your House of Pancakes candidate.

-Robert

"Icebound" wrote in message
t.cable.rogers.com...

The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country.

Or it could be a measure that they don't need to give a damn. Hear me out:
if you lived in Iraq under Saddam, Romania unde Ceaucescu, etc. you needed
to pay *very* careful attention to "politics" because it was a life-or-death
issue, and it seeped into every aspect of your daily life, too. Want a
better apartment, job, anything, all of life was controlled by government.
Apathy meant death or deprivation.

Here in the US, you can live an entire upper middle-class life and unless
you have a run-in with the local school committee or zoning board, never
really care who's in control.

I'm not saying this is the *intelligent* choice, but given that the history
of mankind is largely that of tyrants and kings, this is something of an
achievement.

digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.


Statistical aberration. No question we have our share of homegrown wack
jobs, guys who shoot up abortion clinics, apocalyptic visionaries in Texas,
etc. But no one proposed baggage screening to get on my Cessna when that's
all it was. Not to be ignored but they are not the primary problem today, or
even the secondary one.

Best,
-cwk.

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Icebound wrote:
The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious
symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country. (Hell, it can be argued that some significant
number
of corporations don't give a real damn for their country, either, but I
digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.

It is not the responsibility of Corporations to "give a real damn for
their country".
Their responsibility is to their stockholders... those who have paid money
for shares
and expect them to be successful and not to lose money. Only individual
citizens are
capable of "giving a damn". It could be argued that those who actually pay
taxes in
this country are shareholders in a similar sense.


The "corporations" reference was a self-admitted digression, but since you
chose to address it:

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the mechanisms for
raising capital. The Nation's security and police forces provide a
civilized background against which the Corporation can do its business with
some semblance of safety, security, and reasonable expectation of
longevity.... not only to its entity, but to its people, its material, and
its capital. The Nation's network of laws provide displute-settlement
mechanisms to help ensure that the Corporation will not be cheated, and that
help it carry out business in a level playing field. In many cases, the
Corporation has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


kontiki wrote:

In my opinion the whole picture ID thing is feel-good lawmaking
that will cost more money and inconvenience in order to provide
an illusion of greater security.

You're absolutely wrong. It won't provide even an illusion of greater
security.


Yes, but the next time some girl in a bar asks to see my pilot's license,
maybe they'll believe it's real.

-cwk.

First, it's silly to make the general statement "the Left has decided".
But, in reality, because our world is so complex, especially when dealing
with foreign countries, most decisions made by our political leaders ARE
between various shades of gray.

Personally, I think many of the most critical choices to be made in the
world right now are pretty stark.

Our leaders -- whomever they may be -- MUST be able to discern right from
wrong, and act accordingly. Or at least, they must be able to choose MOST
right from MOST wrong. This is not easy, and it requires someone who is
willing to make a moral choice -- not someone who will just waffle around
the edges, waiting for an opportunity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the mechanisms
for
raising capital. The Nation's security and police forces provide a
civilized background against which the Corporation can do its business
with
some semblance of safety, security, and reasonable expectation of
longevity.... not only to its entity, but to its people, its material, and
its capital. The Nation's network of laws provide displute-settlement
mechanisms to help ensure that the Corporation will not be cheated, and
that
help it carry out business in a level playing field. In many cases, the
Corporation has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

Where your logic goes awry is when you forget the very simple fact that
Corporations are made up of citizens, just like you and me.

This fact -- so often ignored by the ignorant youth of our nation -- is the
utter downfall of the Left's anti-business/anti-corporation ideology.
Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital.

In short, they represent everything the Left supposedly stands for...

This bitter irony never fails to make me laugh out loud whenever I see the
violent, left-wing protesters outside the World Trade Organizations
meetings...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Icebound wrote:

Picture IDs do 2 things:
......

They do three things. In addition to those you mentioned, they effectively remove
more money from your wallet. The NJ driver's license is now $24. A passport is $55.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Homeland security is about making people feel safe. If this makes the
general public feel safe, then its probably worth the cost to them.

What makes you think that *they* will pay the cost? Your next certificate is going to
be an expensive one.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.