Fatal Injury: hit by the prop

disc would not be visible from the back. A 172 with the high wing
makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the plane fairly easy. At
least easier than a low wing.

Say What???

You climb out of a 172 and the door is between you and the whirly thing.
Close the door and the wing strut is between you and the whirly thing. You
are talking about the "Cessna 172," right? You couldn't "stumble into the
prop while exiting" even if you were totally s###-faced, and three times
over the legal limit.

My personal rule is that I would never leave the engine running and not be
at the controls. Now, if I am flying with another pilot, either of us can
get out with the engine running and if PIC is getting out, we have a routine
for passing control of the aircraft that we have briefed. I have pilot
friends that will run up to hand me something or say something and I have no
problem with that, although I am still watching what they are doing and
anticipating a brain fart. If I don't know the person approaching my
aircraft, or know the person but they aren't a pilot,...engine is off. Just
my own personal comfort zone there.

Also, if I'm shutting it down in a hurry, it's with the mag switches not the
mixture.

wrote in message
oups.com...
The plane was with Angel Air out of Stellar. The pilot was a renter.

That's a damn shame. AA has a nice facility and their planes look to be in
good shape too. I actually took my Discovery Flight with one of their CFIs
(I belive her name was Jelica) but decided to do my training over at
Chandler Muni instead.

I've been meaning to pop in there and see the new digs and talk to them
about possibly getting checked out for renting.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in ::

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop, even if
I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.

Larry Dighera wrote:

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light?

As I recall, mine had me shut down while she got out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in ::

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the prop,
even if
I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.



Mine made me shut down.

Jay B

Jay Beckman wrote:
Mine made me shut down.

Excellent! Too often when I'm at an airport with my scanner (RHV or SQL
usually) I see a CFI hop out for a student's first solo while the prop is
turning. It makes me want to jump up, run over to the plane, and strangle
the CFI - and I'm really really not a violent person. It is so
irresponsible IMHO. I wonder how many of these prop strike pilots had a CFI
that hopped out while the engine was running. You cannot do things with a
student, and then tell them not to do it - you need to fly and behave like
you want the student to fly and behave (behave == decision making). One day
he'll be flying with his wife, fire up the engine, try taxi, realize he's
left the chocks on. What does he do?

When I solo a student, we taxi to a not busy spot, shutdown, chat about what
we had just done, what he/she should do, how it'll feel different without me
there, sign the papers, emphasize that go-arounds are good, and to go have
fun and fly the numbers. Then I hop out, and the student starts running the
checklist(s) from the engine start. Yes, it costs them an extra $5, but
let's put things into perspective here. [OK, now that I have that pet peeve
off my chest... ]

Hilton

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message news:%XaJd.3082

Mine made me shut down.

Ditto. The only exception was when he showed me how to hand-start the prop.

-c

Generally, I leave the engine running, unless some some circumstance
makes it more 'hazardous' than usual (i.e. ice, rain). Approaching or
leaving an aircraft from the rear with a running prop is not inherently
'unusually' dangerous. I explain to my student what I am doing, and
why. I tell him that I shut off the engine if somebody who *isn't* a
pilot, mechanic, or experienced jumper is entering or leaving the
plane, but if it is one of the above, then I assume they have enough
understanding and experience to manage any dangers that might be
lurking.

It's like hand-propping a plane. It isn't 'unusually' dangerous when
performed by somebody who knows what they are doing, but isn't
something I'd let somebody who *wasn't* a pilot or mechanic do. And if
I trust my student to have the judgement to safely fly his family
halfway across the country, then I trust him to use reasonably
judgement in this kind of situation as well.

Cheers,

Cap

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:49:00 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in ::

I'll shut down if I think there's a chance they could get near the
prop, even if
I think they don't intend to do so.

Flight instructors soloing student pilots are faced with this issue.
It would be interesting to know their personal procedure. Do they
leave the student at the controls with the engine running when they
send them on their first solo, or require a re-light? If the former,
it could unintentionally set a poor precedent for students.

wrote in message ...
A 172 with the high wing makes stumbling into the prop while exiting the
plane fairly easy.
At least easier than a low wing. I have exited low wing planes with the
engine running on a few occasions and felt safe. Of course I never
walked past the trailing edge of the wing. Would not attempt this on a
hi wing tho.....

j

J, I don't really know what kind of high wing your talking about.
The Cessna's that I'm familiar with are not that east to step out of and
walk into the prop.
First you have the door that makes you step back away from the prop.
Second you have the landing gear that makes you step further back from the
prop.
Third you have the wing spar that gets in the way of a clear path to the
prop.

Now on a low wing I can climb down forward of the wing if I choose with no
obstacles to
keep me from doing so, or climb back up on the low wing from the front of
the wing.
Now if I should stumble forward while getting down or backward while getting
up, I would
end up right into the prop.

Now that should end the Low-wing vs. High-wing safety issues.

The real point here is that you should stay away from any running engines
(Prop or Jet).
Even car engines are dangerous places to get next to while running.

David (KORL)