Radio advice - newbie

I understand that in most European countries, glider flying in cloud is
prohibited (though occasionally done by some lawbreakers, I have heard).
I have seen references to it occasionally in the USA so presumably it is
legal there. In the UK it is permitted, outside controlled airspace.
Most often this means climbing not just up to the base of a cumulus
cloud which has been formed by a thermal, but continuing on into the
cloud to get higher. It is sometimes possible to achieve cross country
flights by this means which are difficult or impossible if each thermal
has to be left at or lower than cloud base.
Having climbed above cloudbase, if one comes out of the side of the
cloud, another may be in the way en route, and one option is then to fly
through it rather than deviate round it.

Wave flying is another scenario - cloud may form around the glider or in
front (up wind) of it and so flight through it becomes unavoidable.

Cloud flying is potentially dangerous and should only be attempted after
suitable training, and with appropriate instruments. It is said that the
inexperienced can lose attitude and control in as little as 45 seconds.
Those who have not experienced the disorientation do not believe it can
happen that quickly, and a few have carried their disbelief into
practice with fatal results. Loss of control almost always means
entering a spiral dive, pulling high g and gaining speed. In modern
gliders, acceleration can be very rapid, the brakes or spoilers are
often not speed-limiting, and the wings come off. The last fatal gliding
accident of this sort in the UK was to one 10,000-hour (IIRC) pilot with
some experience of cloud flying a few years ago - the barograph trace
showed the glider broke up at about 10,000 feet at high speed, in a
modified Slingsby Vega with new tips.

Chris N.

Cloud flying with gliders is legal in Switzerland, UK and Germany (although
restricted). It's not legal in France.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Chris Nicholas" a écrit dans le
message de ...
I understand that in most European countries, glider flying in cloud is
prohibited (though occasionally done by some lawbreakers, I have heard).

In Poland it also can be done legally, as well as night flying.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

And in Sweden it is legal to, provided you have a special rating for
cloud flying with gliders.

Robert

Janusz Kesik wrote:
In Poland it also can be done legally, as well as night flying.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.

"Arnold Pieper" wrote in message
om...
Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.



Not totally correct. In the US you CAN fly IFR without being on an IFR
flight plan and without a clearance, so long as you do it in Class G
airspace.Both aircraft and pilot must meet IFR requirements, however.

Ivan
CFII

Not totally correct. In the US you CAN fly IFR without being on an IFR
flight plan and without a clearance, so long as you do it in Class G
airspace.Both aircraft and pilot must meet IFR requirements, however.

Ivan
CFII

What aircraft IFR requirements are there for gliders?

91.205(a) does not seem to apply (only covers powered
civil aircraft with a standard category U.S.
airworthiness certificate).

91.215 seems to exempt gliders from almost all transponder
requirements even in controlled airspace.

91.205(e) seems to still apply to FL 240+ since it
just says "civil aircraft."

Don't get me wrong: Flying south in a 2-22 in solid IFR at
FL230 using only handheld for ATC and a mag compass
as an attitude indicator, might not
be a great idea.

But as long as the pilot meets 61.57(c)(2) or 61.57(d)
(more likely) it seems generally the aircraft
instrumentation requirements are legally
non-existent for glider IFR below FL240.
And the radio requirements for controlled
airspace 91.183 could be satisfied with a
handheld.

But they may be part of experimental limitations 91.319(d)(2),
or part of the IFR required equipment in the flight manual,
or flight manual limitations against IFR, I suppose...

And if one decides they want to use a transponder in a glider
IFR, it doesn't even seem to need 91.411 (about $100) since it
isn't an airplane or helicopter.
91.413 (about $50) would still apply, I believe.

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:3fdbd02d$1@darkstar...
Not totally correct. In the US you CAN fly IFR without being on an IFR
flight plan and without a clearance, so long as you do it in Class G
airspace.Both aircraft and pilot must meet IFR requirements, however.

Ivan
CFII

What aircraft IFR requirements are there for gliders?

snip

You are correct that most FARs speak to airplanes, but even for airplanes
the FARs are not governing for any particular aircraft. Typically, the
flight manual will say if the aircraft can be flown under IFR and if so,
what instruments are required. For example, in the G-102 manual it says that
only VFR flight is permitted while the LS-3 states that "cloud flying" is
permitted.

Ivan

"Arnold Pieper" wrote in message . com...
Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.

As with most rules it's the exceptions that are worth knowing. In USA
no intrument flight plan is required for flight in instrument
conditions when not in controlled airspace. There is a class G area
near Bagdad, Arizona, that I have been thinking of using for years.
The only thing that stops me is that I would have to remove the gyro
for contest flying and it would leave a nasty hole in the panel. (yes,
I am instument rated in airplanes and current).


Andy (GY)

There is a class G area
near Bagdad, Arizona.

) LOL!

Is there really a place named Baghdad in Arizona, or You're just joking?

Janusz