What camera for pictures from a glider cockpit?

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Andy Blackburn wrote:

At 03:12 08 December 2005, Chris wrote:

I've had some good luck with a wing mounted camera
using a Radio remote
control with a Harbortronics Digisnap 2200 controller
and Nikon Coolpix
5400 digital camera.



I have the same rig, but find the 5400 hs too much
shutter lag and way too small an LCD for handheld shots.

The new Fujis get great reviews for near-zero shutter
lags and excellent high-ASA performance. Some have
2.5' LCDs. They don't have lots of manual features
and I doubt they have remote shutter releases.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf10zoom/

The Fuji models are quite attractive, but only two current models seem
to have the wide angle (28 mm equivalent) that I want. The E500 and E510
have most of want I want and are priced well, but appear to have long
shutter lag, no continuous or burst mode, and a 2" LCD monitor that is
alleged to wash out in sunlight. So far, the Canon S80 seems to be the
best fit, but I don't know for sure that it's LCD is any better (though
it's bigger at 2.5"). None of them have remote releases, unfortunately,
but I think this can accomplished with some tinkering, using a low cost
radio control system for model cars/aiplanes.

You probably already know this but: if you go the RC way, be kind to the
RC pilots and either stick to 27 mHz or avoid the aircraft-only
frequencies. Boats and cars don't get written off by a bit of
interference like aircraft do.

It would also be interesting to know of the IR control systems used for
indoor models work for this application or if they get swamped by
sunlight reflected off the wings and fuselage.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

Bill Gribble wrote:
2cernauta2 writes

Nikon 8400, 8megapix, zoom 24-85mm


I got one of these. Lovely camera, doesn't really fall into the small
and compact category though. Sort of a stepping stone hybrid between
compact and SLR. But it does hang on its strap quite nicely around your
neck - just make sure it's secured against bouncing off your forehead in
the event of a cable break if you launch on the winch!

A link to some pictures taken with it using a polarising filter a couple
of weekends ago over the Cotswolds here in the UK (not soaring - I was
ballast in a motor-falke :-)

http://j.domaindlx.com/scapegoatsanon/

Bandwidth exceeded :-(

snip
You probably already know this but: if you go the RC way, be kind to the
RC pilots and either stick to 27 mHz or avoid the aircraft-only
frequencies. Boats and cars don't get written off by a bit of
interference like aircraft do.
There usually are no RC equipment near where I fly, and if there were I
would have a problem too if they were on my frequency. I however am
only transmitting for about 1/2 second for each photo so it it not a
continuous broadcast.


It would also be interesting to know of the IR control systems used for
indoor models work for this application or if they get swamped by
sunlight reflected off the wings and fuselage.

Tried that - some pictures work - but the sunlight is definitely a
problem for many [but not all] angles. I got some good shots using a
Canon Powershot G5 and it's IR remote, but a lot of shots failed
because of the sun. I had built a glareshield that helped, but in the
end that was too frustrating to everything lined up for an air to air
shot and have no photo. This is why I switched to a radio control.
A wired controller would work too, but stringing a wire along the wing
where it could come loose and jam the flaps/aileron etc made me
disinterested in that approach.

Martin Gregorie wrote:
None of them have remote
releases, unfortunately, but I think this can accomplished with some
tinkering, using a low cost radio control system for model cars/aiplanes.

You probably already know this but: if you go the RC way, be kind to the
RC pilots and either stick to 27 mHz or avoid the aircraft-only
frequencies. Boats and cars don't get written off by a bit of
interference like aircraft do.

Good thoughts - I was thinking of the cheapest car type with the
shortest usable antenna on the transmitter, since only 30 feet of range
is required.


It would also be interesting to know of the IR control systems used for
indoor models work for this application or if they get swamped by
sunlight reflected off the wings and fuselage.

I'm not aware of this type, but I suspect swamping wouldn't be a
problem. IR units typically use modulation to avoid ambient light level
problems. Do you have a URL or two I could look at?

--
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

chris wrote:

snip

You probably already know this but: if you go the RC way, be kind to the
RC pilots and either stick to 27 mHz or avoid the aircraft-only
frequencies. Boats and cars don't get written off by a bit of
interference like aircraft do.

There usually are no RC equipment near where I fly, and if there were I
would have a problem too if they were on my frequency. I however am
only transmitting for about 1/2 second for each photo so it it not a
continuous broadcast.

Shortening the antennas, on the receiver and transmitter on the
sailplane units would also reduce interference risks for all users.



It would also be interesting to know of the IR control systems used for
indoor models work for this application or if they get swamped by
sunlight reflected off the wings and fuselage.


Tried that - some pictures work - but the sunlight is definitely a
problem for many [but not all] angles. I got some good shots using a
Canon Powershot G5 and it's IR remote, but a lot of shots failed
because of the sun. I had built a glareshield that helped, but in the
end that was too frustrating to everything lined up for an air to air
shot and have no photo.

Sorry to hear that!

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

For a video camera option instead of a still camera I saw this and
thought it might be good for head mounting, as well as easy to mount
externally on wingtip, or tail.

Tony Hawk First Video Camera
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=P303-1000

it has an SD card, and I think 32mb=~30 minutes.
so a 1GB card would probably be a long video. if it works that way.

Chris

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Actually, I think my requirements for a cockpit camera are few, mainly a
wide angle lens for better scenery pictures, and an LCD that is
practical for aiming the camera at another glider in flight. I think
that feature will make it air-to-air pictures easier and safer.

The Nikon 8400 works well for interior shots with its wide angle zoom
lens (equivalent to 24mm focal length on a 35mm film camera, or about
a 75 degree angle of view) and swing-out LCD. The cockpit of the 1-26
is a little tight for mounting, but the camera does the job -- eight
MB stills and 999 consecutive seconds of motion at 320x240 color or B&W,
and 60 sec. of 640x480 color. With sequence lengths of up to 16:39
possible, and proper editing, an interesting video could probably be
made. It will accept screw-in filters as a film camera does. I use a
daylight filter, as much for lens protection as anything else, but a
polarizing filter is worth trying.

Google Video has a short chopped-up piece made with this camera:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8599456403526520656&q=sailplane
This was a test, and the quality is atrocious due to Google's
compression for playback on the web. The original file looks good
on a desktop screen or TV.

For a pure video camera I'm still using an old bulky analog Sony
Hi-Eight, so I have no suggestions. The best place to mount that thing
inside a 1-26 is the ballast box, but it makes good pictures and I do
have a wide-angle aux. lens for it. Maybe next season I'll make a
three-hour unedited video of my fingers wrapped around the stick, with
the five point harness connector in the background. Should be exciting.


Jack

Shawn wrote:


Make sure what ever you get can accept a polarizing filter to get rid of
canopy reflections.


Or fly a 1-26 with a sports canopy, so you shoot through air, not
plexi! ;-P

I settled on the Canon G-6 last year. I wanted fast shutter speed, and
features like programmable infinity focus...I've had other cameras that
had efficient infra red auto focus mechanisms: they focused perfectly
on the INSIDE of the plexiglass!

Soon I'll make a "sock" to put around the darned marketing department
silver plastic body.

Overall, I like the camera a great deal. I think they're $400 on
Costco.com I opted to get a 1G Lexar Pro CF flash card (much faster
than other digital memory...at least when I bought it).

Another good thing to get is a memory to PC-Card adapter. It can make
downloading todays pix to your laptop much easier than getting SeeYou
to suck a trace from a VolksLogger.

Good Luck!

309 wrote:
Shawn wrote:


Make sure what ever you get can accept a polarizing filter to get rid of
canopy reflections.



Or fly a 1-26 with a sports canopy, so you shoot through air, not
plexi! ;-P

I settled on the Canon G-6 last year. I wanted fast shutter speed, and
features like programmable infinity focus...I've had other cameras that
had efficient infra red auto focus mechanisms: they focused perfectly
on the INSIDE of the plexiglass!

How well does the infrared remote control work, or haven't you tried it
out on a wing tip?

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Yeah, story of my life! Sorry about that. Amazing how quickly a few
pictures will go through a gig of bandwidth!

Alternative link to a smaller selection of same pictures on Imageshack:

http://img373.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=gfefe2355pv.jpg

Cheers,


Bill

Shawn writes
A link to some pictures taken with it using a polarising filter a
couple of weekends ago over the Cotswolds here in the UK (not soaring
- I was ballast in a motor-falke :-)
http://j.domaindlx.com/scapegoatsanon/

Bandwidth exceeded :-(

--
Bill Gribble
http://www.harlequin.uk.net
http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson