Cirrus vs ASW

"W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\)." wrote:
The Pegasus was also a success because of the lessons learnt when producing
the ASW20 under licence.


Yes. But then the Marianne should have been a greater success from the lessons
of producing the Pegase.

The Pegasus is clearly an unflapped version of the ASW20, just as the LS8 is
an unflapped version of the LS6.

No, this is not true. The fuselage is the same more or less, but the wings are
completely different, with a new design, obtained by public researchers at
ONERA. This has been hashed and rehashed many times. I suppose you will not
object to the point that the wing design is by far the most important point
in the design of a glider, and that almost all performance and handling comes
from that.


--

Michel TALON

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:27:02 +0100, "Bert Willing"
wrote:

The Pegasus has a completely different airfoil (developed by the French
research institute ONERA) than the Schleicher gliders, and it's the reason
that a Pegasus has a significantly higher performance than an ASW19. But for
the rest, I agree :-)

Hi Bert,

are the Pegase airfoil coordinates available somewhere?

I'd really be interested in a closer look at the Pegase's airfoil -
because I usually flew my ASW-20 with flap setting 3 (=neutral flaps)
while thermalling and got the impression that this setting would make
the 20 a very high performance standard class glider. In my opinion
the FX 62-K131 is a very good fixed wing airfoil.





Bye
Andreas

I have no idea how to get hold of the airfoil coordinates...


"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:27:02 +0100, "Bert Willing"
wrote:

The Pegasus has a completely different airfoil (developed by the French
research institute ONERA) than the Schleicher gliders, and it's the reason
that a Pegasus has a significantly higher performance than an ASW19. But
for
the rest, I agree :-)

Hi Bert,

are the Pegase airfoil coordinates available somewhere?

I'd really be interested in a closer look at the Pegase's airfoil -
because I usually flew my ASW-20 with flap setting 3 (=neutral flaps)
while thermalling and got the impression that this setting would make
the 20 a very high performance standard class glider. In my opinion
the FX 62-K131 is a very good fixed wing airfoil.





Bye
Andreas

Shouldn't this thread be relabelled as I have done
it?

Where did the Standard Cirrus get to?

By the way M. Talon, I wasn't intending to have a pop
at the French (this time anyway), despite the fact
that they make life as difficult as they possibly can
for us 'roast beef' glider pilots. I was merely trying
to promote the Standard Cirrus.

With EASA taking over aviation in Europe, the problem
of life expired gliders that are no longer supported
by their manufacturers (some of whom have ceased trading)
may in the long term affect quite types of sailplane,
not only the Centrair ones.

Derek Copeland

At 17:30 14 March 2006, Bert Willing wrote:
I have no idea how to get hold of the airfoil coordinates...


'Andreas Maurer' wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:27:02 +0100, 'Bert Willing'
wrote:

The Pegasus has a completely different airfoil (developed
by the French
research institute ONERA) than the Schleicher gliders,
and it's the reason
that a Pegasus has a significantly higher performance
than an ASW19. But
for
the rest, I agree :-)

Hi Bert,

are the Pegase airfoil coordinates available somewhere?

I'd really be interested in a closer look at the Pegase's
airfoil -
because I usually flew my ASW-20 with flap setting
3 (=neutral flaps)
while thermalling and got the impression that this
setting would make
the 20 a very high performance standard class glider.
In my opinion
the FX 62-K131 is a very good fixed wing airfoil.

To All:

So, if the Centrair is out of business who, and how can extend the life
of the Pegasus to satisfy the FAA? Now, if the glider has more than
3000 hours can it be flown in Experimental Cat.? I was just looking at
possibility of buying one here, in the US....but it may not be worth
buying one nowadays?

Jacek Kobiesa
Washington State

Right, can I just check... this trouble about hours
is because of the FAA, so in Britain are there any
problems? Or is it just that under the FAA?

At 19:00 14 March 2006,
wrote:
To All:

So, if the Centrair is out of business who, and how
can extend the life
of the Pegasus to satisfy the FAA? Now, if the glider
has more than
3000 hours can it be flown in Experimental Cat.? I
was just looking at
possibility of buying one here, in the US....but it
may not be worth
buying one nowadays?

Jacek Kobiesa
Washington State

In the UK gliders first registered in the UK before
September 2003 are still controlled by the British
Gliding Association. Any new glider or glider imported
into the UK after September 2003 has to have a Civil
Aviation Authority (nickname Campaign Against Aviation)
registration and C of A, and is, or will be, under
the ultimate control of EASA (European Aviation Safety
Agency).

I therefore believe that we will eventually have the
same problem. There are a number of types of glider
whose makers are no longer trading or supporting their
gliders. I don't know the exact position of Centrair.
Perhaps a French person could explain.

Derek Copeland

At 10:00 15 March 2006, Jono Richards wrote:

Right, can I just check... this trouble about hours
is because of the FAA, so in Britain are there any
problems? Or is it just that under the FAA?

At 19:00 14 March 2006,
wrote:
To All:

So, if the Centrair is out of business who, and how
can extend the life
of the Pegasus to satisfy the FAA? Now, if the glider
has more than
3000 hours can it be flown in Experimental Cat.? I
was just looking at
possibility of buying one here, in the US....but it
may not be worth
buying one nowadays?

Jacek Kobiesa
Washington State

Jono Richards wrote:
Right, can I just check... this trouble about hours
is because of the FAA, so in Britain are there any
problems? Or is it just that under the FAA?

At 19:00 14 March 2006,
wrote:
To All:

So, if the Centrair is out of business who, and how
can extend the life
of the Pegasus to satisfy the FAA? Now, if the glider
has more than
3000 hours can it be flown in Experimental Cat.? I
was just looking at
possibility of buying one here, in the US....but it
may not be worth
buying one nowadays?

Jacek Kobiesa
Washington State



That is only under the FAA.

Thank you for all of your help.

It turns out the ASW is 50,000. The Cirrus makes me
a bit nervous with the tail (attaching and flying)
Has anybody got any thoughts on the Standard Jantar?
I can live with the two piece canopy (cant be modded
in Canada because there is no experimental class).
I also understand the gear is big for bumpy off fields
although may cause it to nose over with hard braking.
Other than that I know very little. Any advise would
be appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff Runciman wrote:
Thank you for all of your help.

It turns out the ASW is 50,000. The Cirrus makes me
a bit nervous with the tail (attaching and flying)

I've not had much to do with Cirrus's - but I have had to deal with the
same all flying tail plane on a borrowed Nimbus 2 whilst my 2c was in
for repairs (see
http://www.hart.wattle.id.au/alice/a...ice3mar04.html).

I too was somewhat twitched at the stories I had heard about the all
flying tail and its sensitivity, so my first launch had me waiting in
some apprehension - which was completely unwarranted.

Whilst the all flying tail does mean that you shouldn't let go off the
stick at high speed (or even for long at low speed) it does not make the
aircraft unstable in pitch. It's certainly more sensitive in pitch and
PIOs are easier to do - but remember a PIO is a PILOT induced
oscillation and not a problem with the aircraft!

As for rigging and making sure the elevator is correctly attached, it is
a bit difficult at first, but after a couple of goes it didn't present a
great problem.

I did however do an extremely careful loaded control check as part of
the DI (get someone to hold the all flying tail to restrict its movement
and then firmly move the control column) to ensure that it truly was
attached and not just 'resting'!

I would suggest you don't rule out a Cirrus just because of the
'stories' about the all flying tail. It is my experience that these are
exaggerated - but do of course contain a kernel of truth as noted above!

Robert