Autogas Tips and Tricks

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:28:20 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:51:11 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

There is an advisory for the O300 about vapor lock and the CPA
recommends flying only on one tank anytime above 5000' so you can easily
clear the lock.
That recommendation comes from Cessna itself, and has nothing to do with
auto fuel.

And AAUI only applies to the older Cessnas without dual venting caps.

It's up to and including the K model. But it's not the caps, it's a
vent line. The cap issue is a different AD.

Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks.

What are the
tips and tricks for operating with mogas. Different run-up
techniques? Taxiing, hi temperatures, vapor lock avoidance, winter
ops. You name it. Inquiring minds want to know.

No tricks. No special procedures. In fact, you can run your engine
far more normally than you can with 100LL, without fear of lead-fouled
plugs.

We just ticked over 8,000 gallons of mogas through our O-540-powered
Pathfinder, pumped through this rig:
http://alexisparkinn.com/new_mighty_grape.htm

The $$$ just keep adding up... Just keep lobbying your state
legislators to NOT mandate ethanol-polluted gasoline in your area.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:09:16 -0700, Al
wrote:

Taxiing, hi temperatures, vapor lock avoidance, winter
ops. You name it. Inquiring minds want to know.

Our Cubs were STC'd for mogas for a year or so, then went to 100LL.

The big problem was the instructors didn't like the smell, especially
the woman instructor. But the men weren't far behind. It certainly
stank, compared to 87 or 100LL. And in a Cub the instructors of course
sat in the front seat where the dribbles were.

More serious for me, sitting in the back seat, was that the engine was
prone to quit. The worst moment was flaring on landing, when the
airstream stopped driving the prop, the prop stopped driving the
engine, and the engine stopped. Most pilots claim that the engine runs
better on mogas, but this was not my experience.

The airport instituted a rule that we couldn't fly the Cubs when temps
were below 20 degrees F, and that helped some.

Now I use the mogas pump to buy fuel for my small engines, since it is
the only way to get gas without alcohol. The airport buys it buy the
truckload at the marine terminal in Portland ME before the alky goes
in.

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:24:33 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

It's more than just the engine. One of the problems with running ethanol
is that it may react with fuel system components that were not designed to
handle it. The engine manufacturer has no control over what goes into the
hoses, tanks, fuel pump diaphrams, etc...

As it was told to me, this is the problem for the Cubs.

Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in
:

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:24:33 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

It's more than just the engine. One of the problems with running
ethanol
is that it may react with fuel system components that were not
designed to handle it. The engine manufacturer has no control over
what goes into the hoses, tanks, fuel pump diaphrams, etc...

As it was told to me, this is the problem for the Cubs.


You can immunise your cub from the ravages of auto fuel by doing th
efollowing..

1, Make sure your float is metal and not cork. Cork floats are pretty
rare nowadays anyway, but some of the ingredients of modern fuels wil
melt the varnish on the float and that's not good.

2, Your float needle seat should be metal, not plastic. Shouldn't be a
problem for your carb, but it's best to make sure just in case someone's
"modernised" it or you have a later type carb in your airplane.

3. Change your hoses to automotive type. I put aircraft type fittings on
auto fuel line I just got at the local auto parts store. 14 years on and
many gallons of auto gas later, no problems.

Your old continental will really appreciate you not sticking 100LL into
it. No fouled plugs, no sticking valves. I do put Marvel Mystery oil
into the engine for a few reasons, though. Aside from being a good
lubricant for the valves, it also keeps corrosion at bay when the
airplane's sitting.


Having aaid all of this, I haven't run it on any gas containing ethanol
yet. I might try it as I can't realy see any problem for my engine, but
I'll do a good bit of research on it before I do. I'm fortuante in
having as an acquantence a petro-chemical engineer who is also a pilot.


Bertie

Our Cubs were STC'd for mogas for a year or so, then went to 100LL.
SNIP
More serious for me, sitting in the back seat, was that the engine was
prone to quit. The worst moment was flaring on landing, when the
airstream stopped driving the prop, the prop stopped driving the
engine, and the engine stopped. Most pilots claim that the engine runs
better on mogas, but this was not my experience.

Sorry Dan, but I can't let this lay. You are spreading dangerous and
misleading misinformation.

If your engine was quitting on final, I would have some serious
maintenance done on your Cub -- *or* I'd carefully check the quality
of your fuel. There is NO reason (as in zero, zilch, nada) for your
Cub's 1930s technology engine to run any differently on 87 octane
unleaded mogas -- a fuel FAR closer to what it was designed to use --
than it would on 100 LL.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
of your fuel. There is NO reason (as in zero, zilch, nada) for your
Cub's 1930s technology engine to run any differently on 87 octane
unleaded mogas -- a fuel FAR closer to what it was designed to use --
than it would on 100 LL.

It's my understanding that, in addition to octane level and lead
content, autogas also differs from avgas in it's "vapor pressure".
This is why certain aircraft need modifications to their fuel systems to
use autogas (to prevent vapor lock). It may well be that, in the Cub,
you need to reroute some fuel lines, or tweak the idle, or idle-mixture,
in order for it to run properly on autofuel. This is one of the reasons
that the FAA doesn't issue blanket approval for the entire fleet to
start using autofuel.

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Sorry Dan, but I can't let this lay. You are spreading dangerous and
misleading misinformation.


Jay, just because your engine works well with it does not mean others
will. There are many variables. That is why there is an STC for each
aircraft/engine combination.

"john smith" wrote in message ...
In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Sorry Dan, but I can't let this lay. You are spreading dangerous and
misleading misinformation.


Jay, just because your engine works well with it does not mean others
will. There are many variables. That is why there is an STC for each
aircraft/engine combination.

Exactly right, and if Cubdriver used autogas with a STC then it should work as published, no issues with operation.
However, if there is not an STC then all bets are off. I would be surprised if there was not a STC for the old Cubs
however....

In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Sorry Dan, but I can't let this lay. You are spreading dangerous and
misleading misinformation.


Jay, just because your engine works well with it does not mean others
will. There are many variables. That is why there is an STC for each
aircraft/engine combination.

Exactly right, and if Cubdriver used autogas with a STC then it should work
as published, no issues with operation.
However, if there is not an STC then all bets are off. I would be surprised
if there was not a STC for the old Cubs
however....

The old Cubs were designed to run on WW-II "combat gas," which was the
mogas issued to run Jeeps, trucks, tanks, etc.

The STC equipment for the Cub is a clip fastened to a pushrod housing
and a note on the gas cap.