Longer parachute repack cycle petition (USA)

The article or post was by Bob Wander.

I believe it said the FAA has no right to do an unscheduled ramp check
on your glider. It recommended that you be very polite to the FAA
employee, show but not give your license and picture ID.

Then ask if he would like to make an appointment to check your glider.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

RAS 1999 thread has a synopsis and some interesting comments. Article
doesn't appear to be available any longer on Bob's web site.

http://tinyurl.com/ab5rk

Frank Whiteley

I found it! In the Ops Inspector's Handbook Guidance (8400.10, Chap.
50, Section 1):

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...a/2_050_00.pdf

Paragraph A. (2) appears to be the answer.

A. Surveillance Policy. Airshows, fly-ins, and **other gatherings of
general aviation aircraft** and airmen
are opportunities for the Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA) to present a positive image to the aviation
community with whom we work and the general
public. Many of the aircraft operators attending these
aviation events are regular users of our air traffic and
flight service facilities, but their contact with Flight
Standards personnel may have been rare. Most of the
people who fly their airplanes to fly-in events and
airshows are aviation enthusiasts and hobbyists and are
not employed in the aviation industry as pilots.

(1) The FAA would like this important segment
of airspace users to have a very positive image of
inspectors and the safety activities inspectors perform.
Therefore, the FAA encourages inspectors to establish
early contact with sponsors and organizers of aviation
events so that informational and Aviation Safety
Program activities can be planned to serve attendees.

(2) Under no circumstances should these gatherings
be targeted for a blanket sweep inspection of
spectator airmen and aircraft.

(3) The scope of surveillance conducted on
aviation event performers and their aircraft will be
determined by the Flight Standards District Office
(FSDO) manager.

(4) Inspectors assigned work functions at aviation
events should strive to earn the confidence of the
attending and participating airmen. This can be
accomplished by displaying expert technical knowledge
as an aviation safety professional.

(5) The guidance in this chapter does not
preclude inspectors from taking appropriate action to
resolve situations they observe that require immediate
corrective action.



My colleagues tell me (I'm not a GA Fed) that they arrange a meeting
ahead of time for airshows when they do this. This policy would be
applicable for a glider race, but probably not when you're sitting in
line waiting for a tow on a regular soaring Saturday. There is other
policy in the 8400 that discusses a standard ramp check:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...a/2_056_00.pdf

C. Common Reasons for a Ramp Inspection.
Ramp inspections may result when the inspector:
(1) Observes an unsafe operation in the traffic
pattern or in the ramp
(2) Is notified by ATC of an unsafe operation
(3) Conducts normal surveillance

Note item (3) above - a Fed can simply be performing normal
surveillance walking down the line and if he decides he wants to ramp
your aircraft, the guidance says he can. Normally FAA inspectors are
always performing required or planned surveillance according to a
program approved by supervisory staff. Normally, Feds don't just hang
around the coffee shop waiting for something to fly in.

As discussed in the guidance linked above, when an Ops inspector is
doing a ramp check and you are sitting there in your glider, he'll ask
for the standard AROW stuff and your certificate number. The 8400.10
does not say you can tell him to call you later, so I suppose you can
politely tell the inspector to go away and he or she might do so - but
you will get the call (or maybe letter) that requests you go to the
FSDO at your earliest convenience and provide the documents. I do know
that one does not normally have pilot or maintenance logbooks in one's
aircraft and it is normal to produce those at a later date - if there
is some reason for the logs to be requested.

Personally, in my experience, I would show the FAA guy my AROW, chute
repack card, etc, and hope not to see him or her again for about a
hundred years. I would not tell the FAA to go away and come back some
other day, because I know they will. If you are not in your glider or
near it, the FAA cannot open your aircraft to gain access to anything,
policy is very clear on this.

Of course there is lots more policy to read and in some places I'm
paraphrasing it and I'm by no means an official source of information,
I'm just reading publicly available guidance posted on their website. I
did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

Here's an excellent review of the subject of ramp inspections on Avweb:
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181845-1.html

Now I'm heading out to the garage to install my new Becker AR 4201 I
just bought from Paul Remde, and it will go right next to
theVolkslogger I bought from Richard Pfeiffner and just above the SN10b
I bought from Tom and Doris, and of course to the right of the ASI I
bought from Tim Mara (that I could afford because I sold my 1-26E on
the Wings and Wheels Want Ads in 2 days!) Next I'll need an ACK-450
ELT - who will have the best price and service? [whoop whoop - thread
hijack alert]

You da man! Whew! I was beginning to think that I had just imagined
all this!



Larry Goddard

"01" USA





"jphoenix" wrote in message
oups.com:

I found it! In the Ops Inspector's Handbook Guidance (8400.10, Chap.
50, Section 1):

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...a/2_050_00.pdf

Paragraph A. (2) appears to be the answer.

A. Surveillance Policy. Airshows, fly-ins, and **other gatherings of
general aviation aircraft** and airmen
are opportunities for the Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA) to present a positive image to the aviation
community with whom we work and the general
public. Many of the aircraft operators attending these
aviation events are regular users of our air traffic and
flight service facilities, but their contact with Flight
Standards personnel may have been rare. Most of the
people who fly their airplanes to fly-in events and
airshows are aviation enthusiasts and hobbyists and are
not employed in the aviation industry as pilots.

(1) The FAA would like this important segment
of airspace users to have a very positive image of
inspectors and the safety activities inspectors perform.
Therefore, the FAA encourages inspectors to establish
early contact with sponsors and organizers of aviation
events so that informational and Aviation Safety
Program activities can be planned to serve attendees.

(2) Under no circumstances should these gatherings
be targeted for a blanket sweep inspection of
spectator airmen and aircraft.

(3) The scope of surveillance conducted on
aviation event performers and their aircraft will be
determined by the Flight Standards District Office
(FSDO) manager.

(4) Inspectors assigned work functions at aviation
events should strive to earn the confidence of the
attending and participating airmen. This can be
accomplished by displaying expert technical knowledge
as an aviation safety professional.

(5) The guidance in this chapter does not
preclude inspectors from taking appropriate action to
resolve situations they observe that require immediate
corrective action.



My colleagues tell me (I'm not a GA Fed) that they arrange a meeting
ahead of time for airshows when they do this. This policy would be
applicable for a glider race, but probably not when you're sitting in
line waiting for a tow on a regular soaring Saturday. There is other
policy in the 8400 that discusses a standard ramp check:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...a/2_056_00.pdf

C. Common Reasons for a Ramp Inspection.
Ramp inspections may result when the inspector:
(1) Observes an unsafe operation in the traffic
pattern or in the ramp
(2) Is notified by ATC of an unsafe operation
(3) Conducts normal surveillance

Note item (3) above - a Fed can simply be performing normal
surveillance walking down the line and if he decides he wants to ramp
your aircraft, the guidance says he can. Normally FAA inspectors are
always performing required or planned surveillance according to a
program approved by supervisory staff. Normally, Feds don't just hang
around the coffee shop waiting for something to fly in.

As discussed in the guidance linked above, when an Ops inspector is
doing a ramp check and you are sitting there in your glider, he'll ask
for the standard AROW stuff and your certificate number. The 8400.10
does not say you can tell him to call you later, so I suppose you can
politely tell the inspector to go away and he or she might do so - but
you will get the call (or maybe letter) that requests you go to the
FSDO at your earliest convenience and provide the documents. I do know
that one does not normally have pilot or maintenance logbooks in one's
aircraft and it is normal to produce those at a later date - if there
is some reason for the logs to be requested.

Personally, in my experience, I would show the FAA guy my AROW, chute
repack card, etc, and hope not to see him or her again for about a
hundred years. I would not tell the FAA to go away and come back some
other day, because I know they will. If you are not in your glider or
near it, the FAA cannot open your aircraft to gain access to anything,
policy is very clear on this.

Of course there is lots more policy to read and in some places I'm
paraphrasing it and I'm by no means an official source of information,
I'm just reading publicly available guidance posted on their website. I
did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

Here's an excellent review of the subject of ramp inspections on Avweb:
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181845-1.html

Now I'm heading out to the garage to install my new Becker AR 4201 I
just bought from Paul Remde, and it will go right next to
theVolkslogger I bought from Richard Pfeiffner and just above the SN10b
I bought from Tom and Doris, and of course to the right of the ASI I
bought from Tim Mara (that I could afford because I sold my 1-26E on
the Wings and Wheels Want Ads in 2 days!) Next I'll need an ACK-450
ELT - who will have the best price and service? [whoop whoop - thread
hijack alert]

"jphoenix" wrote in
oups.com:

I found it! In the Ops Inspector's Handbook Guidance (8400.10, Chap.
50, Section 1):


About 10 years ago we were having a fun contest for training purposes. I
asked the boyfriend of one of the pilots, a person that nobody knew and an
ex-cop, to impersonate a FAA inspector and put on a ramp check after the
gliders were staged.

He asked each of the 20-25 pilots in attendence for Pilot's License,
Registration, Airworthiness Certificate (visible at the entrance to the
aircraft), Weight and Balance, and parachute pack date. He wrote down N
numbers and pilot certificate numbers. He had all the pilots stammering
and blithering. Of course, almost no one had all the items required (these
are glider pilots after all!) and no one asked to see his credentials, or
even noticed that the FAA tag on his cap was made of paper! We all
discussed it later at the BBQ and were better prepared for the next time it
might happen. It was instructive for all...

About 25 years ago I watched 2 FAA inpectors ramp check every aircraft that
came to the fuel pumps at a busy general aviation airport. They busted
many owners that day but I don't think anyone had formal charges against
them.

I'm glad that we have a "kinder and friendlier" FAA now.

Do you have a compass correction card in your glider? ;-)
-Bob Korves

Hmmmm?! And you're still alive? Amazing!











"business" "Bob Korves" bkorves@winfirstDECIMALcom wrote in message
. 44:

"jphoenix" wrote in
oups.com:

I found it! In the Ops Inspector's Handbook Guidance (8400.10, Chap.
50, Section 1):


About 10 years ago we were having a fun contest for training purposes. I
asked the boyfriend of one of the pilots, a person that nobody knew and an
ex-cop, to impersonate a FAA inspector and put on a ramp check after the
gliders were staged.

He asked each of the 20-25 pilots in attendence for Pilot's License,
Registration, Airworthiness Certificate (visible at the entrance to the
aircraft), Weight and Balance, and parachute pack date. He wrote down N
numbers and pilot certificate numbers. He had all the pilots stammering
and blithering. Of course, almost no one had all the items required (these
are glider pilots after all!) and no one asked to see his credentials, or
even noticed that the FAA tag on his cap was made of paper! We all
discussed it later at the BBQ and were better prepared for the next time it
might happen. It was instructive for all...

About 25 years ago I watched 2 FAA inpectors ramp check every aircraft that
came to the fuel pumps at a busy general aviation airport. They busted
many owners that day but I don't think anyone had formal charges against
them.

I'm glad that we have a "kinder and friendlier" FAA now.

Do you have a compass correction card in your glider? ;-)
-Bob Korves