Wow - heard on the air... (long)

And I've started saying all that twice, slowly, "Flight Watch Flight
Watch, Maule N-1-2-3-4-F, 20 miles south Bonkers VOR, 20 mile south
Bonkers, destination RDU"

I heard someone do that and started myself. Can't justify it all but
makes some sense.

Anyway, I just try to switch gears from talking to ATC. FW can be
slower, more conversational, etc. But the location thing is key.

Comments?

Alan wrote:
Wholeheartedly agree! It saves a lot of time and multiple exchanges
if on your first contact you state your N number, position, altitude
and request. Granted it does take a little planning and forethought
which is beyond many people.

Maule Driver wrote:

And I've started saying all that twice, slowly, "Flight Watch Flight
Watch, Maule N-1-2-3-4-F, 20 miles south Bonkers VOR, 20 mile south
Bonkers, destination RDU"

I heard someone do that and started myself. Can't justify it all but
makes some sense.

Anyway, I just try to switch gears from talking to ATC. FW can be
slower, more conversational, etc. But the location thing is key.

Comments?

Up in central and western NY (where my typical flights originate), I border
multiple Flight Watch areas (Boston, NY, and Cleveland).

During t-storm time it is so busy between those three facilities that I try
to keep it short. Thus, I would skip the second location and the
destination.

Instead, I would include my request, such as "with a Skyspotter Pirep," or
"requesting radar en route to {destination}," or "requesting updated
weather at {destination}."

--
Peter

Doug wrote:

One thing a LOT of pilots don't do right. When you call fligh****ch,
you should give your position on your initial callup. This is because
although it's all the same frequency, there are different transmitters.
If you don't give your position, he has to reply on ALL the
transmitters he has becuase he doesn't know WHERE YOU ARE!

I hear this mistake time and time again

I used to make this mistake all the time because I was not taught the
correct method for contacting Flight Watch during my training.

During one call I received quite the tongue-lashing from a particularly
crabby Boston Flight Watch specialist about including my location and,
presto-chango, no more mistake.

--
Peter
























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Peter R. wrote:
During one call I received quite the tongue-lashing from a particularly
crabby Boston Flight Watch specialist about including my location and,
presto-chango, no more mistake.


As my father used to say, "you'll learn quicker from an ass-reaming than a
success". He was generally correct.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Doug wrote:
One thing a LOT of pilots don't do right. When you call fligh****ch,
you should give your position on your initial callup. This is because
although it's all the same frequency, there are different transmitters.
If you don't give your position, he has to reply on ALL the
transmitters he has becuase he doesn't know WHERE YOU ARE!

I hear this mistake time and time again.

Have you been to a flight circus station in the last decade?
They know where you are because their console twinkles all the
receivers you hit.

And the Flight Service Specialist has to GUESS what transmitter to use
if there is more than one "twinkle" they have to choose from. The
correctr phraseology, so I've been taught, is: "McMinnville Radio,
Cessna 12345 on 122.45 out of Newberg." OR "McMinnville Radio, Cessna
12345 on 122.6 out of Salem." Remember that they may also have multiple
transmitters on 122.45 or 122.6 that they control, so the location is
just as important. Btw, Flight Watch is NOT Flight Service. Around
Salem, Oregon, Flight watch goes to Seattle Flight Watch, not
McMinnville, where Oregon's AFSS is located (for now).

Chris


Ron Natalie wrote:
Doug wrote:

One thing a LOT of pilots don't do right. When you call fligh****ch,
you should give your position on your initial callup. This is because
although it's all the same frequency, there are different transmitters.
If you don't give your position, he has to reply on ALL the
transmitters he has becuase he doesn't know WHERE YOU ARE!

I hear this mistake time and time again.

Have you been to a flight circus station in the last decade?
They know where you are because their console twinkles all the
receivers you hit.

That's great Gotta give the guy credit though, at least he was
trying to give a PIREP.

Alan wrote:
Fligh****ch: Cessna 234, do you know virga is called when it hits
the ground?
Cessna 234: (slight pause). Uh, negative, I guess that I don't.
Fligh****ch: Virga that reaches the ground is called rain!
Cessna 234: Oh, thanks for that info.

I would have an FAA rep meet this guy at Ohare when he lands.

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
news
Today I flew RST (Rochester, MN) to 3CK (Chicago-Lake in the Hills).
As I neared Chicago I was listening to 120.55, which is ORD approach
for the North side. This was around 6pm, which is a pretty busy time
for approach, lots of arrivals and departures in the ORD area.

During the 15 minutes between Rockford and 3CK, I heard the biggest
clusterf**k on the air that I've been witness to in my 10+ years of
flying. I really wish I had a recorder handy because I couldn't
believe the level of incompetence... Maybe someone can point a link
to a LiveATC recording or simliar...

Anyway, as I tuned in approach, I heard an irrated controller giving
traffic avoidance instructions to the plane... This follows from
memory, but here goes...

Approach: Cessna 123, fly 130 for traffic"
Cessna 123: 130 (note the lack of aircraft N-number in response)

A minute later approach is reprimanding him for not flying 130, and
asking him what his heading is.

Approach: Cessna 123, what is your heading?
Cessna 123: EAST!!!
Approach: Cessna 123, say again, what is your heading?
Cessna 123: EAST!
Approach: How did you get on 090, I assigned you 130 for traffic.
Cessna 123: Didn't you assign me 110?
Approach: Nevermind. Cessna 123 fly 090, maintain 2400.
Cessna 123. EAST and 24

A minute later...

Approach: Cessna 123, I told you to fly 090, and now it looks like
you are not on that, and you are descending. Fly 090 and maintain
2400.
Cessna 123: 123, roger, 090, 24

A few minutes pass and a few vectors are issued to Cessna 123, which
he roughly follows. During this period of time, Cessna 123 randomly
and unprompted announces his heading and altitude on frequency.

Approach: Cessna 123, you are x miles from CUTEY the OM, cleared
ILS 16.
Cessna 123: OK, will you tell me when I'm at the runway?
editors note: it is perfect VFR, clear and vis probably close to 20
miles

long pause

Approach: Cessna 123, are you capable of flying an ILS?
After a long pause Cessna 123: Ahhh, well, I am flying the headings
you give me.
Approach: Yes, but are you capable of flying the ILS into Palwaukee?
Cessna 123: Ahhh, well, I meant to land at O'Hara, but they wouldn't
let me because I didn't have the reservation thingy that is required,
so they sent me to do the ILS at Palwaukee.
Approach; Cessna 123, that's not what I asked you. Can you fly the
ILS into Palwaukee?
Cessna 123: Ahh, blah blah blah more about how he intended to go to
OHara ...but we don't have an ILS chart for Palwaukee. ed. note:
keep that in mind
Approach: Cessna 123, OK. How about a visual into Palwaukee?
Cessna 123: OK, a visual into Palwaukee.
Approach: Cessna 123. Turn to 160 degrees, cleared visual approach
at Palwaukee.
Cessna 123: 160

A minute passes, and Cessna 123 calls out...
Cessna 123: 123 is at 2400 and 160
Approach: Cessna 123, you do not need to keep giving me your heading
and altitude.

A minute or two later...
Approach: Cessna 123. Did you want to go to OHare?
Cessna 123: Yes, but we didn't have the reservation, so they sent us
to Palwaukee. I've landed at OHara and Palwaukee before, so it does
not matter to me, unless you can clear me to O'Hara.
Approach: Cessna 123, I am Chicago Approach, I can clear you to any
airport in Chicago. Do you want to go to O'Hare?
Cessna 123: Yes, I would like to go to O'Hara.

Approach: Cessna 123, turn right to 220, vectors to OHare, expect 9L.
Cessna 123: Right 220, expect 9L, vectors.

A few minutes pass...

Cessna 123: You want me to land 9L, right?
Approach: Yes, 9L. There is going to be airline traffic landing 9R,
so do not cross the (garbled) ed. note, I assume approach said
control tower as it separates 9L from 9R

Cessna 123: 9L.

At this point, I was in the pattern at 3CK, and faced with a tough
decision. Get home and see my family, or fly another 30 minutes and
listen to this guy's approach into ORD. I decided my family was more
important, so I ended up landing.

As I taxied in, a number of airliners were signing off on frequency
changes with 'good luck'...

So what's the point of posting this? One, I thought it was comical -
I was practically crying listening to the exchanges...

Second, I want to show the type of mindset that a few pilots have.
The gentleman in question obviously did little/no flight planning,
lacks basic flight skills, and lacks basic radio skills. He was
flying IFR, but apparently without proper charts (I doubt he had any
approach plates if he didn't have plates for PWK).

This is the prototype for a pilot ready to give GA a major black eye.
I guarantee if this was DC, he would have been another TFR/ADIZ bust.

I sure hope this gentleman got a phone number to call upon landing,
and a followup visit from the friendly folks at the FAA.

-Nathan