Calls on the radio

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

So why is the airport called "YIP"?


It isn't. It's called Willow Run Airport



So that is the identifier for Willow Run Airport. Nice nit.

Took your A**hole pills today, I see, Stephen? That is the second backhand
I have seen from you today.
--
Jim in NC

In article , Pascal wrote:

When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN

What call should I do ?
Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
or
Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram available at:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[snip]
Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question.

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[snip]
Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question.

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)

That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.

For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
use in there?

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

As does the A/FD entry.

Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).

I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
real harm will come from using the wrong name.

Pete

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
fast, but I couldn't find her.

The AF/D gets its info from the airport manager, who may not even know
to supply it (after all, it's standard - it's been 800 feet since he was
a little boy).

I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
but the Feds call it something else.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. net...
Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

While I agree with your observation, the A/FD is the best resource available
absent first-hand knowledge. There is no substitute for knowing what the
reality is, but if you can't get that, the A/FD is the next best thing.

One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard".

Different people fly different TPAs for different reasons, and there is no
FAR that requires them to do otherwise. While each airport may have one or
more recommended TPAs, it would be unwise to expect each and every aircraft
operating at that airport to be using the published TPA, whether accurate or
not.

[...]
I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
but the Feds call it something else.

Possible. For towered airports (which is the question here) I would guess
that's exceedingly uncommon. But even so, the A/FD is still a great
resource and the one pilots should be relying on if they don't have personal
first-hand knowledge or access to someone with that first-hand knowledge.

Pete

Jose wrote:




Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

There's a lot of places to look if you care. If you're not sure just
use "tower."


One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
fast, but I couldn't find her.

TPA is non regulatory, a suggestion only. I never bother to look at
TPA. I'm going to 1000 AGL at every airport unless there's some reason
not to.

Peter,

I apologize, it was "A/FD" that I meant.

The purpose of my question was actually more based on something that
happened to me the other day.
I should have given a better example
I always fly from KBMG ( Bloomington, IN ) and it is true that the A/FD
states that it is "Blomington tower".
There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Of course, all of this is not a big deal and choosing one or the other
from the airport directory shouldn't make much difference usually but I
was just wondering how I could do the thing right at first.


Based on the multiple posts on this thread there doesn't seem to really
be a rule of thumb, so I guess and will try to choose the easier one to
pronounce until I hear something different from somone else.

Thanks




Peter Duniho wrote:

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...


In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[snip]


Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question.


One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)



That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.

For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
use in there?

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.



In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.



As does the A/FD entry.



Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).



I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
real harm will come from using the wrong name.

Pete

In article , Pascal wrote:

There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
You'll see:

CITY NAME
Airport Name (Alternate Name)

It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Pascal" wrote in message
...
I apologize, it was "A/FD" that I meant.

The purpose of my question was actually more based on something that
happened to me the other day.
I should have given a better example

Boy, I'll say. Seems like we all pretty much figured you were asking
about towered airports.

[...]
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would I
figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer
calls.

Especially for uncontrolled airports, there really is no good answer. At
least when there's a tower to address, you can ask them what they'd like to
be called. But there are no rules for non-towered airports. Furthermore,
just as with controlled airports, an uncontrolled airport may have more than
one name. For example, one uncontrolled airport I frequent around here goes
by "Pierce County Airport" as well as "Thun Field". Traffic is almost
always called out as "Pierce County" but one needs to be alert for either
that or "Thun" (but not, oddly enough , "Puyallup"...the municipality that
the airport serves).

In the case of your Grissom airport, I think that for long-term operational
knowledge, you just listen to what's going on. But even though using
"Grissom" would turn out to be the wrong guess, it's not a bad guess and
people operating in the vicinity ought to know that "Grissom" is the same as
"Bedford".

Of course, all of this is not a big deal and choosing one or the other
from the airport directory shouldn't make much difference usually but I
was just wondering how I could do the thing right at first.

Well, I think we've answered it for controlled airports. For uncontrolled,
I think that there just is not any one true answer. For any rule you might
think of, other than simply listening to hear what is the local standard,
there are going to be exceptions. I think it's best to start with the
information from the A/FD (airport name, specifically) and then modify as
needed once you hear what the other pilots in the area use. If you use the
airport name, they will still know what you're talking about.

Based on the multiple posts on this thread there doesn't seem to really be
a rule of thumb, so I guess and will try to choose the easier one to
pronounce until I hear something different from somone else.

Heh...I guess that's one way to make the choice. Just as always using
the airport name, or always using the municipality, will not cause any
serious problems, I think you'll be just fine using the name that's easiest
to pronounce.

Pete