How to land on a grass airstrip

"drclive" wrote in message
oups.com...
Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article that describes the
differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first time, tips and
advices? Thanks

One difference which almost bit me in the derrierre' when I was a new pilot
is that a grass strip doesn't have a nice painted centerline or even runway
edges to give you an indication that you're pointed in more or less the
right direction. I had an experience where I drifted well off-line on
takeoff from a grass strip and was more or less oblivious to the problem
until I nearly collected the tree which defined the narrow point of the
strip.

Since then, I've done a much better job of lining up on grass fields and
picking an object at the end of the field to use as an aim point.

KB

unicate wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

You are the second person who can't distinguish between a grass strip
and a soft field. I guess you both need some remedial instruction. Any
competent private pilot or soloed student even should have no problem
landing on a grass strip. If they do, their instructor should have his
or her license revoked.


The point of my post was that the attitude that if someone wants or
needs to take a CFI with them to practice something they were taught but
never actually *did*, like landing on anything other than a paved
surface, even AFTER they have their license, who are you to pass
judgment on them or on their "original" CFI?

You guys make landing on a grass strip sound like rocket science. This
just isn't a big deal and any competent private pilot should have no
trouble doing this. If you need remedial training for something you
should have learned in the first place, then I stand by my statement
that you initial instruction was deficient. I've encountered all sorts
of new things since getting my private and then later my instrument
rating. If I had to take an instructor along every time I faced a new
weather condition or flew into an unfamiliar airport, I'd need a CFI for
every trip. A competent pilot should have the skill to gradually expand
their skill and experience on their own. Landing on grass just isn't
something that should require a CFI.


The attitude that "remedial instruction" after one is a licensed private
pilot is something to be ashamed of, or a negative reflection on one's
"original" CFI, has no place here, IMO. Must be nice to be so perfect
that you never need, want or ask for the input of a CFI once you have a
license. If you open any of your private pilot reference books or the
FAR/AIM to review something you learned during private pilot
instruction, is that a negative reflection on your "original" CFI, too?
How do you know how long this person got their license, how often they
fly, or what the terrain is like where they are?

I certainly enlist a CFI for significant new things, like checking out
in an unfamiliar airplane, but I don't get a CFI for every little new
thing I explore and I consider landing on a grass airstrip rather than
pavement to be an extremely minor activity. I landing in snow the first
time without an instructor aboard. Landed on ice that way. Landed at
Logan, BWI, Philly and Washington National the first time all alone as well.


And while on the subject of assumptions, I know grass strips are not
*always* soft fields -- my mistake for not being more specific; your
mistake for assuming that all of them ARE. Where I'm from, if you can
get grass to grow on it, it's soft enough for a soft-field landing;
grass doesn't generally grow on anything harder here ... at least, not
the kind of lush green grass you can see from pattern altitude or above.
*Most* dirt strips around here are soft also. Nevertheless, I don't know
of any school or club that allows one to land a rental aircraft on an
unimproved strip, with or without a CFI.

You should know the area to which you are flying and the runway
conditions prior to take-off. That is part of preflight planning. I
think the OP's question was pretty simple, yet folks gave a lot of worst
case scenario responses. He didn't ask how to land on a grass airstrip
that is saturated with water and is located on a peat bog. :-)


Matt

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:25:46 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:


See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back.

Even when taxiing back after landing into a 30K headwind?


30 knot head wind doesn't reduce the weight on the nose wheel on taxiing,
so yes, you still need yoke full aft, just less power,

But when you are taxiing back after landing that 30 knot headwind is now
a 30 knot tailwind. Holding full up elevator with that strong a
tailwind will put a lot more weight on the nosewheel and may even flip
the airplane on its nose. You did learn proper control positioning for
taxiing in strong windds during your primary instruction didn't you?


Matt

Pastures are nice, but fresh cow patties must be washed off
before they dry too much.

Everybody should fly a taildragger some, perhaps the new
Sport Pilot Cub re-creations will help with that.

Tundra tires make landing safer, but slow cruise.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"birdog" wrote in message
...
|I learned in a J-3 on a grass strip. I got a single
sentence instruction for
| my first hard surface landing. That was to be sure to
track the runway in a
| crosswind. You can be a little sloppy on grass, but not on
asphalt,
| especially in a taildragger.
|
| Never gave it any thought before, but taildragger pilots
are always going to
| touch down nose high and slowed to near stall in any
craft, on grass or
| asphalt. If there are any taildragger pilots around now
days, watch 'em
| landing tri-'s sometime.
|
| Sounds like some of you guys are talking about landing in
a cow pasture.
| Most dirt fields I've flown into had a distinct path
marking the strip used
| as the runway. No way would I ever intentionally, i. e. on
purpose, set one
| down in a uniform field of grass about which I was
unfamiliar.
|
| There is distinct advantages in becoming proficient in a
taildragger and one
| that is not spin-proof. I guess all of this dates me.
|
|

If you have a big field of grass, you can always land into
the wind. The British used such fields for the narrow gear
on the Spitfire. It is also harder to bomb the runway when
it is 2,000 foot by 2,000 or bigger.


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
|
| "drclive" wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article
that describes the
| differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first
time, tips and
| advices? Thanks
|
| One difference which almost bit me in the derrierre' when
I was a new pilot
| is that a grass strip doesn't have a nice painted
centerline or even runway
| edges to give you an indication that you're pointed in
more or less the
| right direction. I had an experience where I drifted well
off-line on
| takeoff from a grass strip and was more or less oblivious
to the problem
| until I nearly collected the tree which defined the narrow
point of the
| strip.
|
| Since then, I've done a much better job of lining up on
grass fields and
| picking an object at the end of the field to use as an aim
point.
|
| KB
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

I fly at about 20 feet, just to the side of the runway and
look it over. I do the same with water landings, looking
for rocks, logs and even alligators.

I had an Air Force tanker pilot come to me for a CFI rating.
He had never been on grass and in fact couldn't find an
airport that did not have radar vectors and navaids on the
field. We did a lot of grass strips and pilotage to get him
up to speed. He did the SEL add-on in a few days and took
his CFI check with the feds the next day. A very good pilot
and fast learner, but the USAF doesn't teach T-38/KC 135
pilots to find grass strips in the middle of a world of
grass. The US Army and USMC do a better job at that task.

No wonder the rescue operation in Iran was botched so many years ago.
This is truly scary that a military pilot has no training in landing in
unimproved areas. Wow.

Matt

Jim Macklin wrote:

Vandals tip headstones over in cemeteries and sometimes
visit grass strips for similar reasons. If the airport
isn't attended, a low and slow look-see is a good idea. If
attended, a telephone call can alert you to any new issues,
such as a prairie dog colony.

I've never seen a headstone on a grass airstrip. :-) I'll take your
word for it, however.

Matt

john smith wrote:

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:


No difference, just land normally...


Incorrect advice.....
You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.
Also want to keep the nosewheel off terra firma as long as possible so it
doesn't run the risk of "digging in" from the weight of the engine and prop
when the nose wheel does touch down.
After touchtown, the yoke should be full aft.


You mean you don't do a normal landing this way?

It seems a lot of pilots these days aren't taught this way. It
certainly is the way I was taught. The only real difference between my
soft-field technique and a normal landing is the addition of power after
touchdown in order to hold the nosewheel off and to facilitate taxi. My
approach and landing technique is the same no matter what the runway.

Matt

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:33:32 GMT, john smith wrote:


In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:


No difference, just land normally...

Incorrect advice.....
You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.
Also want to keep the nosewheel off terra firma as long as possible so it
doesn't run the risk of "digging in" from the weight of the engine and prop
when the nose wheel does touch down.
After touchtown, the yoke should be full aft.

You mean you don't do a normal landing this way?


***I don't need the yoke in full aft position AFTER touchdown on paved
runways.***

You don't want to use brakes at all for grass strips on landing or you will
invite the chances of the nose wheel digging in.

This is funny. It is becoming increasingly obvious that you have little
experience on grass runways, especially short ones.

Matt

birdog wrote:

I learned in a J-3 on a grass strip. I got a single sentence instruction for
my first hard surface landing. That was to be sure to track the runway in a
crosswind. You can be a little sloppy on grass, but not on asphalt,
especially in a taildragger.

Never gave it any thought before, but taildragger pilots are always going to
touch down nose high and slowed to near stall in any craft, on grass or
asphalt. If there are any taildragger pilots around now days, watch 'em
landing tri-'s sometime.

Sounds like some of you guys are talking about landing in a cow pasture.
Most dirt fields I've flown into had a distinct path marking the strip used
as the runway. No way would I ever intentionally, i. e. on purpose, set one
down in a uniform field of grass about which I was unfamiliar.

There is distinct advantages in becoming proficient in a taildragger and one
that is not spin-proof. I guess all of this dates me.

It dates you, but it also suggests that you had good primary
instruction. I didn't learn in a tail dragger, but I learned from an
old instructor who has about 50,000 hours, a good share of that
instructing. It appears the more that I read here that newer
instructors aren't teaching folks how to really fly under a wide range
of conditions. The thought of needing a CFI to go from asphalt to grass
just strikes me as so hilarious.

Matt