Gliders and Transponders......again.

On Jan 20, 7:38*am, vontresc wrote:
On Jan 20, 9:05*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:



Hi,

I contacted Trig regarding the availability of their new TT21 in the USA.
Their response is below.

"Thank you for your interest in the TT21, the worlds smallest and lightest
Mode S transponder which also features ADS-B Out by the way, at no extra
cost. We probably will get certification for the TT21 for the US in April,
although I should warn you that the certification process is a long one, and
final approval dates are not completely in our control."

I plan to sell them in the USA if possible.

http://www.trig-avionics.com/tt21.html

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Looks like a neat unit. Any info on the cost though???

Pete

Their press releases spoke of street price expected to be around 1,300
UK Pounds, doing a simple conversion puts that at $1,800 at current
rates. It does look like a nice product for installation in gliders
and other small aircraft.

Darryl

In Germany the call E2 TMZ (Transponder MAndatory Zone).

Robert
ASW 28-18E RD


brtlmj skrev:
My guess is that, sooner or later, airspace class E will be split into
two. E1 will be just like current E, and a transponder will be
necessary to enter class E2. We could expect class E2 to be
established wherever there is a high probability of encountering jet
traffic.

And we might find it worthwhile to actually support the change.

On Jan 20, 7:38*am, vontresc wrote:
On Jan 20, 9:05*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:





Hi,

I contacted Trig regarding the availability of their new TT21 in the USA.
Their response is below.

"Thank you for your interest in the TT21, the worlds smallest and lightest
Mode S transponder which also features ADS-B Out by the way, at no extra
cost. We probably will get certification for the TT21 for the US in April,
although I should warn you that the certification process is a long one, and
final approval dates are not completely in our control."

I plan to sell them in the USA if possible.

http://www.trig-avionics.com/tt21.html

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Looks like a neat unit. Any info on the cost though???

Pete- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

TT21 Mode S Transponder/encoder $1700 US

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Jan 20, 10:02*am, Richard wrote:

Are a dealer? There is only one US delaer listed on manufacturer's
web site and I don't have a reply from them yet.

Andy

help

how does a transponder assist me in not having a mid air collision with
another glider ? or a light aircraft/microlight in class g airspace.

At 11:00 21 January 2009, Ian Gutsel wrote:
help

how does a transponder assist me in not having a mid air
collision with
another glider ? or a light aircraft/microlight in class g
airspace.

Zaon MRX. It will alert you to the presence of another
transponder in your vicinity. If the other aircraft does not have
a transponder, then it is as dangerous to you as you are to it if
you do not carry one.
Instead of thinking about how a transponder can protect you,
think about how you can protect the hundreds of people that will
die should an airliner run over you. I have seen airliners below
me on numerous occasions, and I am not usually able to climb
above 6000'. Finally my conscience forced me to install one. The
way I see it, each of us accepts the risks involved when we
choose to fly. The traveling public does not, nor would they
care whose fault it was if an airliner were brought down by a
sailplane. It is interesting that we gladly pay $1600 for a
parachute that we hope we will never need, but we can't fathom
paying $2000 to install a transponder that could save hundreds
of lives and will, over the course of its service life, vector many
fast movers around us.

On 21 Jan 2009 11:00:05 GMT, Ian Gutsel
wrote:

help

how does a transponder assist me in not having a mid air collision with
another glider ? or a light aircraft/microlight in class g airspace.

It doesn't. It's the other aircraft's xpdr that helps you avoid a
collision, but only if you were wise enough to install a PCAS also.

The choice between installing an xpdr+pcas, or an xpdr+flarm, or the
three of them is yours, and depends on the environment you fly in.

Aldo Cernezzi

On Jan 19, 4:24*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:06:40 -0800, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I know nothing about UK airspace (besides being stuck in it for far too
much time as a passenger holding over Heathrow), but it sounds like the
existing separation of airliner and jets in UK airspace is a key point
you folks should be arguing.

Yes, agreed. The public will be with us on noise grounds if the commuter
airlines get their way and start flying direct routes through class G
airspace - this is something they can't do at present, but the CAA's
transponder consultation seems designed to let them do it.

And again only one of the transponder aircraft needs to be talking to
ATC/radar facilities or have PCAS or higher. *I don't know PCAS (and
higher-end systems) adoption in low-end GA aircraft in the UK, but in
the USA it seems pretty high (purely an anecdotal impression). I've
asked before but could not get adoption numbers for the USA.

I've not seen figures either, but the GA density is probably lower here.
There are flying schools on either side of our club field and there's no
doubt that our weekend movements vastly outnumber both of theirs.

In the Libelle you might be able to make up a mount for a Zaon MRX under
the opaque areas of the front of the canopy.

There's less space there than you might imagine. The panel is inset no
more than 65mm (2.5"), so an end-on cigarette pack would not fit under in
font of the panel while anything thicker would start to hide the top row
instruments.

It might be canted over parallel to the surface,

It would have to be. If it was in the center it would interfere with the
canopy lock. On the other hand, the antenna is probably not an issue - a
remote one could be mounted above the instrument tray that forms the
front of the panel. My GPS antenna is mounted there and gets an excellent
view of the sky.

I wouldn't want anything much bigger than a MH flowmeter on the cockpit
wall in front of me: lets just say the cockpit is 'snug'.

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

The proponents of transponders in gliders should study a recent
Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigation report into a
tragic mid-air collision between a Cessna 182 and a Cessa near Toronto
in August 2006. Three people died in the collision. The full
investigation report is available on the TSB web site at
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-re...6/a06o0206.asp

The TSB report states: "Both aeroplanes were operating in accordance
with visual flight rules in Class E airspace....Both aeroplanes were
equipped with functioning transponders. C-GCHN was also equipped with
a traffic information service (TIS) system that can provide a display
of nearby aircraft using information provided by ground-based radar;
this service is not available in Canada."

A transponder can reduce the risk of collision with Traffic Collision
Advisory System (TCAS) equipped aircraft, i.e. mostly air transport
category aircraft. Maybe that reduction in risk is worth the cost in
some places.

However, as this accident shows, simply installing a transponder gives
no guarantee against collision with non-TCAS equipped aircraft.

Ian Grant
Ottawa Canada

Hi Gang
Without belaboring it I think it has been said enough times that
currently there is no single fool proof way to guaranty avoiding mid
airs. Having an operating transponder, without argument, will diminish
your chance of a mid air since both ATC and aircraft with TCAS or PCAS
will see you. You may not see them and that is why in my world,
without argument, you should also have, at the minimum, a PCAS so that
you will see another aircraft with an operating transponder. A Zaon
PCAS can be had for only $500 - a trivial amount when it comes to
safety. I don't know why we are still discussing these issues -
transponders and PCAS are mandatory safety devices in my world. I
can't think of a reason why anyone would think otherwise.
Dave

On Jan 22, 11:35*am, wrote:
On Jan 19, 4:24*pm, Martin Gregorie



wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:06:40 -0800, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I know nothing about UK airspace (besides being stuck in it for far too
much time as a passenger holding over Heathrow), but it sounds like the
existing separation of airliner and jets in UK airspace is a key point
you folks should be arguing.

Yes, agreed. The public will be with us on noise grounds if the commuter
airlines get their way and start flying direct routes through class G
airspace - this is something they can't do at present, but the CAA's
transponder consultation seems designed to let them do it.

And again only one of the transponder aircraft needs to be talking to
ATC/radar facilities or have PCAS or higher. *I don't know PCAS (and
higher-end systems) adoption in low-end GA aircraft in the UK, but in
the USA it seems pretty high (purely an anecdotal impression). I've
asked before but could not get adoption numbers for the USA.

I've not seen figures either, but the GA density is probably lower here..
There are flying schools on either side of our club field and there's no
doubt that our weekend movements vastly outnumber both of theirs.

In the Libelle you might be able to make up a mount for a Zaon MRX under
the opaque areas of the front of the canopy.

There's less space there than you might imagine. The panel is inset no
more than 65mm (2.5"), so an end-on cigarette pack would not fit under in
font of the panel while anything thicker would start to hide the top row
instruments.

It might be canted over parallel to the surface,

It would have to be. If it was in the center it would interfere with the
canopy lock. On the other hand, the antenna is probably not an issue - a
remote one could be mounted above the instrument tray that forms the
front of the panel. My GPS antenna is mounted there and gets an excellent
view of the sky.

I wouldn't want anything much bigger than a MH flowmeter on the cockpit
wall in front of me: lets just say the cockpit is 'snug'.

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

The proponents of transponders in gliders should study a recent
Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigation report into a
tragic mid-air collision between a Cessna 182 and a Cessa near Toronto
in August 2006. Three people died in the collision. The full
investigation report is available on the TSB web site athttp://www.tsb.gc..ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2006/a06o0206/a06o...

The TSB report states: "Both aeroplanes were operating in accordance
with visual flight rules in Class E airspace....Both aeroplanes were
equipped with functioning transponders. C-GCHN was also equipped with
a traffic information service (TIS) system that can provide a display
of nearby aircraft using information provided by ground-based radar;
this service is not available in Canada."

A transponder can reduce the risk of collision with Traffic Collision
Advisory System (TCAS) equipped aircraft, i.e. mostly air transport
category aircraft. Maybe that reduction in risk is worth the cost in
some places.

However, as this accident shows, simply installing a transponder gives
no guarantee against collision with non-TCAS equipped aircraft.

Ian Grant
Ottawa Canada

wrote:

The proponents of transponders in gliders should study a recent
Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigation report into a
tragic mid-air collision between a Cessna 182 and a Cessa near Toronto
in August 2006.

snip


A transponder can reduce the risk of collision with Traffic Collision
Advisory System (TCAS) equipped aircraft, i.e. mostly air transport
category aircraft. Maybe that reduction in risk is worth the cost in
some places.

However, as this accident shows, simply installing a transponder gives
no guarantee against collision with non-TCAS equipped aircraft.

The proponents of transponders in gliders don't have to read a report to
know this. We've been saying it for years. Do you know a proponent of
transponders that doesn't know this?

Proponent's biggest worry is a glider collision with a *TCAS equipped*
aircraft, because of the potential loss of hundreds of lives and the
devastating effect it would have on soaring. That's why I installed a
transponder over 5 years ago.

Of course, I'd like to avoid colliding with anyone, so I also encourage
pilots to put a Zaon MRX or similar into their gliders. Helps me, helps
them, and at $500 it's an easy sell compared to $2000 and up for a
transponder.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org