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#51
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Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear
wheel loading. some formula one style racers have computer controlled spoilers they call "spoiler flaps", so as to differentiate from a fixed spoiler. Formula One type open wheel cars cars don't have active aerodynamic surfaces anywhere, flaps, spoilers, whatever. They are fixed. The fixed surfaces are called wings and barge boards. They can be adjusted by the pit crew with tools for track conditons. The only thing computer controlled by the computer aside from the engine under present FIA rules is the traction system. |
#52
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"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:50:00 -0800, "Tarver Engineering" wrote: "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message .. . On 11 Jan 2004 01:19:53 GMT, (B2431) wrote: From: Ed Rasimus Not sure what "roll steering" is. The only place I have ever seen the terms "roll steering" and "pitch steering" was in reference to the bars on an ADI. Not even there, Dan. The ADI terminology was "bank steering" and "pitch steering". That would be because most INSs produse "roll command" and you would not have "roll steering" in an F-4. Dan's post refers to the nomenclature for the Attitude Director Indicator. The two bars, one horizontal and one vertical, provide cues for flying instruments, similar to the "bug" in more current displays. They can offer commands related to navigation guidance such as turns to headings or cues for flying ILS approaches or even be linked to weapons release computers for fly up for lofted weapons deliveries. What roll steering refers to is a navigational error signal. From which the flight director roll computer would use roll steering and other parameters to produce roll command, usually displayed as a CMD bug on a flight director attitude display. The vertical bar on the display was called the bank steering bar because it displaced left or right of center and when the proper amount of bank was initiated, it returned to center. When your course change was complete it displaced the opposite direction to return you to wings level flight. Or a bug can be used to play pilot chase the needles, or just have George do it. The horizontal bar was termed the pitch steering bar and it commanded pitch inputs to achieve the proper climb or dive angles. Same idea, except roll steering is only part of the equation that produces command. The nomenclature has nothing to do with the Inertial Navigation system. The ADI is not specific to the F-4, but is the generic attitude indicator display and was the same in the F-105, F-4, and T-38, as well as a a number of other US aircraft which I don't have several thousand hours in. Ed, an INS usually produces roll command directly and does not use the flight director calculation for roll command. The nomenclature is different. Let me give you an example of some 747 navigation changes we have facilitated: A certain head of state aircraft wants to have a glass cockpit and selects a company with an FMS that integrates several flight management systems into their computer. (PMS, Flight Director, DADC, Primary Display) For this system integration we provided a converter from digital to Analog Roll Command, so that the FMS could drive the aircrft's roll command input. Another head of state has a 747 where there was a desire to integrate a Trimble 2101 I/O for approach. In this case, we provided a signal such that the HSI could output "roll steering" from signals derived from the GPS and the DG. So, it is a matter of where the signal is in the system as to what it is named and you would not normally use roll steering with an INS, but I have heard of some INSs that are the other way. |
#53
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"Smartace11" wrote in message ... Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear wheel loading. some formula one style racers have computer controlled spoilers they call "spoiler flaps", so as to differentiate from a fixed spoiler. Formula One type open wheel cars cars don't have active aerodynamic surfaces anywhere, flaps, spoilers, whatever. They are fixed. You mean formula one cars use fixed spoilers. It has been well known for some time that mechanizing the fixed spoiler into a spoiler flap produces several advantages. snip of rattling and clanking |
#54
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In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote: Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear wheel loading. Actually, most modern street cars that have spoilers use them to cause a trailing vortex that decreases flow separation at the rear of the car and reduces overall drag. There's also a reduction in aerodynamic lift, but surprisingly little direct downforce. You have to have a *large* tail spoiler to get a lot of downforce, and that usually makes more drag than is worth it. This is very different from the wings you see on race cars, which also handle flow control but generate a *lot* more downforce. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#55
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"Chad Irby" wrote in message . .. In article , "Tarver Engineering" wrote: Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear wheel loading. Actually, most modern street cars that have spoilers use them to cause a trailing vortex that decreases flow separation at the rear of the car and reduces overall drag. Excellent Chad. There's also a reduction in aerodynamic lift, but surprisingly little direct downforce. You have to have a *large* tail spoiler to get a lot of downforce, and that usually makes more drag than is worth it. That would have to do with how fast a race car goes, Chad. Although, I have seen some expensive ricers with very large spoilers on their cars, out across the desert. This is very different from the wings you see on race cars, which also handle flow control but generate a *lot* more downforce. Very nice, Chad, but my reference was to computer controlled spoilers on race cars, something you need to do a little more research on, but thanks for the data dump. |
#56
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"Dudley Henriques" wrote...
The Blues bolted 'um shut. Can you imagine what would happen in a tight diamond with an A4 if a wing position got an asymmetrical slat extension with roll induced....say in a barrel roll? Not a pretty thought!! :-)) In over 1700 A-4 hours, I never had an asymmetric slat extension that I could not quickly and easily control. After about 1000 hours, few of them were even unpredictable... Careful preflight of the slats would give a VERY good idea of which one would come out first, and any preflight "stickiness" was grounds for rejecting the airplane or having the Airframers work on it before flight. I believe too many TA-4s were lost in the Training Command due to students' unfamiliarity with the airplane and instructors' failure to teach and emphasize both preflight and recovery techniques. That said, I fully understand why the Blues bolted them in -- their 36" wingtip-to-fuselage clearance in some of their formation maneuvers gave quite a bit less room for error than our nominal 3-5' wingtip-to-wingtip clearance in the fleet. |
#57
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
Exactly where would I find a reference to "a spoiler flap in a speedbrake configuration," and in what context? Look it up in CFR14, it is a required data element for digital flight data recorders. Nope. Not a single one. Try again, Johnny. If you can't even look up the DFDR anex in a searchable version of CFR-14, why are you bothering to post? Besides that, I already made my point. Well, in addition to Part 121 I can look up Annexes D and E to 14CFR Part 125, both of which address DFDR specifications, as well as 125.226, which addresses DFDRs. Again, there are absolutely NO references such as you claim. I suppose you have, indeed, made your "point" -- that you can spew BS in this forum and get people to react to it. I have also made my point -- that your claim is, as usual, totally incredible and unsubstantiated. You make for good entertainment at times, but with such a low signal-to-noise ratio, are a lousy source of credible or usable information. |
#58
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
14CFR Part 121 (as cited above) has references to "Ground spoiler" and "spoilers" and "spoiler", but NONE to "fixed spoiler" or "spoiler flap". The ONLY such "full nomenclature" yet discovered is in the Tarverisms. We're still waiting for a credible citation... Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear wheel loading. some formula one style racers have computer controlled spoilers they call "spoiler flaps", so as to differentiate from a fixed spoiler. We still have no credible citation... Even if your latest claim had anything to do with airplanes, DFDRs, and 14CFR -- as you previously claimed -- they still do not make for a credible citation. It took another poster only 18 minutes to debunk the latest "spoiler flaps" claim, and he is at least as credible as you... |
#59
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news8iMb.24836$Rc4.94947@attbi_s54... "Tarver Engineering" wrote... Exactly where would I find a reference to "a spoiler flap in a speedbrake configuration," and in what context? Look it up in CFR14, it is a required data element for digital flight data recorders. Nope. Not a single one. Try again, Johnny. If you can't even look up the DFDR anex in a searchable version of CFR-14, why are you bothering to post? Besides that, I already made my point. Well, in addition to Part 121 I can look up Annexes D and E to 14CFR Part 125, both of which address DFDR specifications, as well as 125.226, which addresses DFDRs. Again, there are absolutely NO references such as you claim. Speedbrake is right there, Johnny. |
#60
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:aiiMb.24859$Rc4.95395@attbi_s54... "Tarver Engineering" wrote... 14CFR Part 121 (as cited above) has references to "Ground spoiler" and "spoilers" and "spoiler", but NONE to "fixed spoiler" or "spoiler flap". The ONLY such "full nomenclature" yet discovered is in the Tarverisms. We're still waiting for a credible citation... Lots of autos have spoilers, as they push down on the rear for more rear wheel loading. some formula one style racers have computer controlled spoilers they call "spoiler flaps", so as to differentiate from a fixed spoiler. We still have no credible citation... Sure you do, that is part of the irony. You might want to adapt a more Dudley like tack to these technical discussions and only post when you have something to say. I don't see what you add to the Ed/Carrier/Walt pilot expert posts. Now, back to military aviation ... |
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