Airplane in NYC is a Cirrus SR20

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
My first thought after hearing
that they were cruising on the river in a considerably faster airplane than
mine was "They went up the East river?!" Could they simply have run out of
room?

Now that I've learned that the instructor was not an NYC metro area
instructor, things start to make sense. A rough theory:

- Yankee flies instructor out to fly back to CA with him.
- Instructor has never seen NYC from the air
- 88 hour pilot takes foreign instructor for sightseeing flight before
heading west
- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.
- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn

When I first started to get true facts about the crash, I couldn't
believe a local instructor would allow them to be there in the first
place, so I suspected a mechanical problem. A new pilot and an
unfamiliar instructor changes a bunch of things.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
om...
Now that I've learned that the instructor was not an NYC metro area
instructor, things start to make sense. A rough theory:

- Yankee flies instructor out to fly back to CA with him.
- Instructor has never seen NYC from the air
- 88 hour pilot takes foreign instructor for sightseeing flight before
heading west
- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.

I don't think so. Lidle had reportedly flown the East River corridor
previously. I've flown past the southern tip of Manhattan many times, and I
can attest that no one could fly up the East river by accident, even if
they'd never been to NYC before. Unlike with some terrain, everything there
is immediately identifiable by a cursory glance; looking out the window
there is like looking at a map.

- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn

The turn isn't remotely impossible. It's a routine maneuver. It just needs
to be planned and executed properly.

Their radar track suggests that they made the standard trek to the end of
the corridor and then attempted the standard U-turn.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:


I don't think so. Lidle had reportedly flown the East River corridor
previously. I've flown past the southern tip of Manhattan many times, and I
can attest that no one could fly up the East river by accident, even if
they'd never been to NYC before.
-----

The turn isn't remotely impossible. It's a routine maneuver. It just needs
to be planned and executed properly.

I'll take both of responding poster's words for it.

I was basing those two comments on a seminar on the VFR corridor I took
at an FAA SafetyFest. The presenter paints the turn as very difficult,
and stated airplanes do accidentally end up in a difficult situation.
Maybe he's referring to somewhere else, further up the East River?

I've only flown the Hudson parts, and agree that the Hudson / East
intersection is unique looking. I haven't been up the East at less than
5,500. G

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:16:16 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote in
:

The turn isn't remotely impossible. It's a routine maneuver. It just needs
to be planned and executed properly.

It would seem that proper planning would at least include the 500'
restriction of FAR 91.119(c). That restriction would reduce the area
in which to complete the turn in compliance with regulations by
1,000'.

If 91.119(b) were more appropriate for the location of the flight, the
Lidle flight would not have been possible under VFR given the 2,000'
ceiling at the time.





http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.3.10.2.4.10
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
top
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may
operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an
emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the
surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town,
or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude
of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above
the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to
any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

B A R R Y wrote:

- The pair go up the wrong river, possibly following one of the amphibs
that live up there.

Your first two points make sense, but IMO this is where your theory falls
apart. I highly doubt they accidentally went up the East River, given that
it is a legal VFR corridor and given that it is very apparent when flying
over NY harbor where Manhattan is and how the rivers surround the island.
Instead, I speculate that they purposely went up the East River to enjoy
the view from that side.

- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn

Most sight-seeing VFR traffic flying up the East River turn around and exit
back to the south. The turn is not an impossible turn, if given some
planning.

--
Peter

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:20:00 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote in :

- Rather than fessing up and asking for clearance through the LGA space,
they attempt impossible turn

Most sight-seeing VFR traffic flying up the East River turn around and exit
back to the south. The turn is not an impossible turn, if given some
planning.

Have you any idea how this fact:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/11/plane.crash/index.html
There was a distress call from the pilot involving a problem with
fuel, government sources close to the investigation told CNN.

may have influenced the outcome of Lidle's flight?

Is any more known about the exact nature of the emergency reported to
ATC?