Accident report on the midair at Tenino

Jeff wrote:

speaking of mid-air's, thursday while flying into phoenix area (FFZ), while over
deer valley airport, my TCAS went off (the wife)...she was getting
all excited...so I make a hard turn and ask her if he was going to hit us, and
she was like no, I just thought you wanted to know that he was down there,
he is gone now.
I almost threw her out of the airplane and told her to walk for now on.

the way she was saying he was below us I thought he was climbing up right under
us.

Maybe that's why "TCAS units" need to talk to one another, and why
specific training, plus experience, is required to deal properly
with their warnings.



Jack

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
speaking of mid-air's, thursday while flying into phoenix area (FFZ),
while over
deer valley airport, my TCAS went off (the wife), she was like "a plane
just off
below us, he is climbing, he is right under us and climbing", she was
getting
all excited now, I was like, where is he, she goes right below us, so I
make a
hard turn and ask her if he was going to hit us and she was like no, I
just
thought you wanted to know that he was down there, he is gone now.
I almost threw her out of the airplane and told her to walk for now on.

the way she was saying he was below us I thought he was climbing up right
under
us.


Nothing worse than getting reports that are no help and just increase your
anxiety level.

lying in the South Midlands near Oxford UK, I was about to call up RAF Brize
Norton for the lowest level service, Flight Information. The controller was
telling another pilot first to contact somewhere else as he was too busy
(the other pilot said that he was told by the other place to contact BN
because they were too busy) and that he only had secondary radar so and
traffic without a transponder was not on his screen.

As we had no transponder decided that I would not add to the work load but
it was very busy today as we all crammed in under class A airspace with a
base at FL45 dropping to 2500ft within 15 miles.

you lucky sods!

sg

Jack wrote in
gy.com:

Jeff wrote:

speaking of mid-air's, thursday while flying into phoenix area (FFZ),
while over deer valley airport, my TCAS went off (the wife)...she was
getting all excited...so I make a hard turn and ask her if he was
going to hit us, and
she was like no, I just thought you wanted to know that he was down
there, he is gone now.
I almost threw her out of the airplane and told her to walk for now
on.

the way she was saying he was below us I thought he was climbing up
right under us.

Maybe that's why "TCAS units" need to talk to one another, and why
specific training, plus experience, is required to deal properly
with their warnings.

Me and my TCAS constantly have trouble communicating. I am thinking of
trading her in for a newer model, but am concerned that this may be just
too expensive to be worthwhile. Also I am somewhat concerned that I might
permanently damage the two dependent systems that we have.

Judah wrote:

Me and my TCAS constantly have trouble communicating.

Me and mine have no trouble communicating. The problem is to get her to stop. :-)

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:



Judah wrote:

Me and my TCAS constantly have trouble communicating.

Me and mine have no trouble communicating. The problem is to get her to
stop. :-)

I like how mine communicates.

My problem is that mine is working to be upgraded to "pilot". I don't want
to be a TCAS!

- Andrew

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:35:40 -0700, Jeff wrote:

200+ hours per year ('54 C-170B)

Bela P. Havasreti

how much do you fly?
I use flight following all the time, I have had traffic called out to me that I
never saw. Its hard to see a plane coming head on, its easier to see them when
they are off to the side a bit.

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote:

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:48:12 -0400, "John Harlow"
wrote:

C J Campbell wrote:
Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area.
Amazing that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all:

"...neither aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic
control radar
services at the time of the collision."

What a shame.

I never, ever fly without at least trying to get traffic advisories, and
it's very rare I don't get it. As a student, because NONE of my instructors
ever did, I didn't think to much about it (they are the pros, don't you
know?). Now, I consider anyone who is to lazy to get flight following as
someone too foolish to fly with.

Are there still instructors out there who still opt out of this (what I
consider mandatory) flying aid?


I'll try to be nice and say you are welcome to consider getting
flight following services "mandatory" whenever you fly.

My personal opinion, is that primary see & avoid techniques
are not being adequately taught these days, and (perhaps?)
too much emphasis is put on relying on systems (radios,
flight following, etc.).

I think there are a lot of pilots out there who climb to cruise
altitude, never "clearing" the airspace in front of them with gentle
5-10 degree turns one way & then the other. Same thing with
descending from cruise altitude. They just lower the nose and drive
straight to the intended airport.

I also think there are a lot of pilots out there who cruise along to
their destination, never lifting (or lowering, for you bottom wingers)
a wing & then the other while scanning the entire viewable horizon
looking for other traffic.

I'm not saying flight following is bad, or you shouldn't use it,
just that you should be able to fly from point A to point B
by looking out the windows and seeing / avoiding any
other airplanes in the sky. Simple as that.

This mid-air could have been avoided had either pilot
done exactly that.

Of course, this mid-air could also have been avoided if at least
one pilot had been getting advisories. But always remember
that there are plenty of mid-air collisions on record where both
aircraft were in contact with ATC.

Bela P. Havasreti

"Jeff" wrote

my TCAS went off (the wife), she was like "a plane just off
below us, he is climbing,

+Snip+

I almost threw her out of the airplane and told her to walk for now on.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Better to be warned, and not needed, then to be not warned and needed.

Educate some more, and go on with it. YMMV
--
Jim in NC


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"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
Even our little C140 could
keep the tail up at low airspeed with two fat buggers in the cabin (who
are behind the main wheels), so the tail will generate a reasonable
amount of lift.

I was looking at the tail of a friend's 170 last night. It's got a huge
elevator surface. By the way, he's just sold his 140.

Paul

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
FIS sounds a bit useless at first

Especially if it's from something like London Information, who
don't have radar, and are maybe talking to 10% of the planes
out there...

Paul

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
how much do you fly?
I use flight following all the time, I have had traffic called out to me
that I
never saw. Its hard to see a plane coming head on, its easier to see them
when
they are off to the side a bit.

I saw (and avoided, obviously) a biz-jet coming directly towards
me, reciprocal heading, at exactly the same altitude yesterday. It
was a few miles south of Hatfield and I was monitoring Essex radar
but not talking to them...guess the biz jet wasn't talking to them
either as I wasn't called out as traffic.

I pushed the stick down and descended about 200ft fairly
quickly. I only saw it was a biz-jet as it passed directly above.

Paul