Engine failure on final

Simple, just don't descend until you can glide to the Runway. Give
yourself at least a 1000' feet to react if you need to put yourself in
a situation where a landing at a location other than the runway is your
only option.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Ok what kind of aircraft do most of us fly?

Aeronca 7AC with a Wood prop will stop fairly easily if you slow down
below 50 mph.
C-150/C-152 Need to hold on the edge of a Stalll for a about 30 seconds
C-172 Need to hold on the edge of a Stall for a about 30 seconds
C-182 Have never been able to stop the prop
PA28-151 Need to hold on the edge of a Stall for a about 30 seconds
PA38-112 Need to hold on the edge of a Stall for a about 30 seconds

I have yet to fly and airplane where at the best glide speed the
propeller will not continue to windmill. YMMV.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Depends on the airplane, most small trainers the smaller prop and low
approach speeds the drag from a windmilling prop is hardly noticable
from an idling engine.

On bigger airplanes the larger prop, Bigger engine (develops more HP
even at idle) and the higher approach speed( Drag goes up by the Square
of the speed) the difference between windmilling and idling can be more
noticable (Especially if the idle speed on the engine is set to high)
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

I can think of two at my airport in the past 5 years. A C-182 landed
short in the power lines because the engine did not respond when he
added power.. And a Piper Cherokee that ran out of fuel on final and
landed in a feild short of the runway this summer..

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Brian wrote:

Let's see: 1/4 @ 200 ft that would be:

1/4 mile = 6040/4 = 1510 ft

1510/200 = 7.55 L/D required.

OK maybe flaps up and best L/D Speed a C-172 might have 7.5 L/D ratio.

At 60 knots, a Cessna 172 demonstrates a 12.2:1 glide ratio with flaps up.
Plenty of margin if you were in that configuration.

http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueAM00/basicsAM00.html

In my Maule, I will probably have 24 degrees of flaps down and be doing 65-70
mph. I will cover that quarter mile in less than 15 seconds, and it will take me
a few to react and drop that Johnson bar. Once I do, though, my rate of descent
will be a bit less than 500 fpm. Judging from the experiment in the above
article, the ROD of a 172 at 60 knots is also about that. Again, plenty of
margin.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

george wrote:

The engine quits the prop stops !

This will only happen if the engine seizes. As Hilton stated, usually you must
slow to nearly stall speed to stop the prop. One of the AOPA Pilot authors ran
some empirical experiments with this and determined that, if you're below about
6,000' AGL, you will not gain enough efficiency by stopping the prop to make up
for the distance lost by slowing down below best glide speed. As Hilton also
points out, there could be times when there are more important considerations
than glide distance.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
george wrote:

The engine quits the prop stops !

This will only happen if the engine seizes. As Hilton stated, usually
you must
slow to nearly stall speed to stop the prop. One of the AOPA Pilot
authors ran
some empirical experiments with this and determined that, if you're
below about
6,000' AGL, you will not gain enough efficiency by stopping the prop
to make up
for the distance lost by slowing down below best glide speed. As
Hilton also
points out, there could be times when there are more important
considerations
than glide distance.

Thank you . You get the prize :-)
Some of the posts had me looking for the feathering lever in the C152
(That is a tongue in cheek remark)

On 24 Jan 2005 06:27:52 -0800, "Brian" wrote:

I have yet to fly and airplane where at the best glide speed the
propeller will not continue to windmill. YMMV.

Not a definitive answer, of course, since the pilot could have brought
the nose up to 40 mph or so, but in this piccy the prop isn't turning
(yet!):

http://www.pipercubforum.com/handprop.htm

(Or at least I *hope* it's not turning!)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

On 24 Jan 2005 06:02:38 -0800, "Brian" wrote:

A much better technique is to fly the extending downwind, base and
maybe even part of final at a 1000' AGL. Once within gliding range,
then reduce power. At least at 1000' feet you should have 20-30 seconds
to consider you options of where you are going to land should the
engine fail. At 300' your going to hit what ever is directly in front
of you.

Well, that puts you at a different altitude than everyone else in the
pattern (especially at 7B3 where p.a. is 800 ft AGL . And if I read
the second sentence correctly, you're not within gliding range until
you're on final, so if your engine quits you will go plop.

Why look around in search of a landing place when you've got an
airport in sight? Why not fly the pattern so that you can glide to the
runway from downwind or base?

(As posted, if I knew how to fly a 45 within gliding distance, I'd do
that too! The only things around 7B3 are houses, trees, and a
one-track railroad bed.)





-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

Nobody has mentioned that one of the reasons to avoid aiming for the numbers
and to plan your touchdown point to be at the 1/3 point of a std 3000'
training rwy is to allow a margin for an engine failure on short final.

Boy, I've been flying for a looooong time, and I never heard that one
before!

Strikes me as developing one bad habit to correct for another bad
habit.

If you fly a proper approach, you'll make the runway whether or not
the engine keeps running.

Unless you're landing at a place like Dulles, where touching down on
the numbers means a hell of along taxi, it's good practice to hit the
numbers. Someday it may save your hide.

vince norris