i think I flew into class c airspace accidentally withoutestablishing communication

On Jan 26, 11:50*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:

It WAS uncalled for, and could in fact actually be a clearly defined
detrimental act to flight safety.

... Best of luck to you.
Dudley Henriques

Dudley,
As usual your response is right on. I also agree with you completely
and would like to encourage others to continue posting their errors so
that we can all learn. I have certainly made my share of errors in my
1500 hours, and have posted many of them here. If someone wants to
remain anonymous, they should feel free to do so.

Best,
Cary

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
How many know the 1/60 rule?

I didn't - but then I'm not yet past student pilot. Luckily google yields
this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_in_60_rule

Larry Dighera wrote in
news
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:44:27 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in
:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Last time I checked celestial navigation wasn't in the PP
requirements and use of a VOR was.


When did you last check? "VOR" does not appear in Part 61.



You're such a dick Steven. Does the initial P stand for penis?

I believe your response to a civil question imminently qualifies you
for the invective you so glibly sling, more than the object of your
scorn.



Mr Netkkkop speaks out again.


Bertie

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

wrote in message
...

Yeah, sure.

I'm willing to bet every pillow, mattress, and piece of furniture in
your house still has the "Do not remove under penalty of law" tag on
it.


You're on. Name the amount.

Said as he scurries through the house looking for all those tags...

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...

Said as he scurries through the house looking for all those tags...


Welcher.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
news:13prvb8h2m12219 @news.supernews.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

What if you are VFR over a cloud layer? There are lots of times
that GPS, VOR and even ADF are the primary navigation aids for VFR
pilots.

Well, there are other, more traditional, methods that are really
pretty essential if you're going to do that. 1 in 60 rule, for
instance. Determinging drift from aircraft ref points and celestial
bodies, that sort of stuff.

Bertie

Last time I checked celestial navigation wasn't in the PP
requirements and use of a VOR was.


I know, but going vfr on top is kinda heavy territory for someone
with a fresh ppl anyway.

How many know the 1/60 rule?


Bertie


I didn't say anything about someone with a fresh PPL. The person I was
responding to (a student) was saying that a non-instrument rated pilot
shouldn't be using GPS, IFR... as primary navigation.

I've heard the term 1/60 rule but don't know what it is.


Well, what I'm advocating is a bit more nuts and bolts nav sense if
people are going to start dicing with weather, rather than just rely on
GPS, so I think we're on the same page. The one in sixty rule just
means, for example, that every sixty miles you are from a navaid, each
degree is about one mile. So, if you're sailing along roughly abeam a
VOR with no DME, and you know your groundspeed is about 2 miles a minute
and you cover two degrees in about a minute, well, you know that that
VOR is sixty miles away. If you cover four degrees in a minute, you're
thirty miles and so on. It's rule of thumb, but it works well.
Likelyise, if you are dead reckoning on top and there is one quick
visual reference and you know how far it is off your dsired track since
our last known position, you can calculate your drift quite accurately
for your next leg. There's a thousand and one uses for it.

Cool eh?

Bertie

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:04:29 -0800 (PST), Cary wrote
in :

Organization: http://groups.google.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.131.11.16

But don't expect GoogleGroups to provide complete anonymity. For
instance, you posted your article from: Department of Veterans
Affairs. I just thought you'd like to know.

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
How many know the 1/60 rule?

I didn't - but then I'm not yet past student pilot. Luckily google
yields this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_in_60_rule


It's not widely taught these day, along with a host of other nav tricks
that were common knowledge years ago in pre radio days.
This one is one of the most useful i can think of though. Another
example would be if you are flying along an airway and there's a navaid
roughly abeam you you can figure your groundspeed by counting the time
it takes to cross radials.

One other simple nav trick is to be aware of how many degrees a
particular point of your airplane is form your eye position. To make
this as accurate as possible, you have to start out with standard
position for your eye, i.e, make sure you make the observation from the
same positon and not with your seat slid forward one time and back the
next.
Then measure, using wahtever sort of device is to hand, the point of
your aircraft that would be 5 deg left of the aircraft's centerline. You
could move the airplane around on the ground to do this using a distant
ground refernce point, or you could use a homemade sextant or whatever
way you care to come up with. You can do it on cowl parts, wings, and
tail. The fore and aft ones are most useful, but it's handy to have some
reference on the wings as well. When you know the references, you can
easily calculate your drift by seing whcih refernce line remains steady
with a ground refernce as you fly along. The poiint that remains steady
on your aircraft is indicating your drift. This is especially handy if
you're leaving your last ground ref points behind you like on an
overwater flight. You can get an actual drift by looking behind you as
you head away from land.
A lot of old time long distance flyers would have had lines painted on
various parts for this very purpose, especially on the stab. I think the
Douglas world Cruisers had them, for instance, and a lot of the Benidix
and McPherson racers would have had them.


Bertie

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:38:59 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message
...
VOR is obviously implied by the language to even the most casual reader.


It's not implied at all to an informed reader.




OK Steven, please inform us what electronic navigation
systems these lines are referring to...

2. Demonstrates the ability to use an airborne electronic navigation
system.
3. Locates the airplane's position using the navigation system.
4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial or bearing, as
appropriate.

GPS? LORAN? ADF?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
OK Steven, please inform us what electronic navigation
systems these lines are referring to...

2. Demonstrates the ability to use an airborne electronic navigation
system.
3. Locates the airplane's position using the navigation system.
4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial or bearing, as
appropriate.


It doesn't refer to any specific system. The requirements can be satisfied
with ADF.




Which is one of the systems I mentioned to start off with. But when I
took my PPL test ride ADF and GPS weren't options so I shortened it.