A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Owning
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 6th 09, 02:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.marketplace
Sunho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP

On Mar 27, 9:18*am, wrote:
Keep flying in spite of the economy !

This is a notice to determine if there is interests in a no-frills,
super-frugal club, based on 1/10 ownership of a classic 1950's VFR
Cessna 172 in the northern Los Angeles metro area. We are considering
forming a club around this aircraft, and we want to see what the level
of interest is.

The big idea is to make it LESS expensive than other clubs or
expensive airplane fractional ownership schemes. We are shooting for a
$3995 buy-in which includes club membership entry fee AND a 1/10
ownership in the aircraft. There would be a low monthly fee, maybe
$50, that would cover normal annuals, tiedown, and insurance. There
would hopefully be a zero or very very low ($5) hourly charge. Non-
routine maintenance, overhaul, upgrades, etc. would be voted on and
assessed only if/when needed. The older 172's with manual flaps and
simple basic electronics are pretty low maintenance.

The club would be limited to ten members. Students would be WELCOME,
the insurance will be set up to allow student pilots to use the
airplane for lessons! You can save a FORTUNE on training costs this
way!

Compared to renting a more modern 172 at the local FBO, our basic
calculations indicate that for a three year period, flying 100 hours a
year (300 total), you could cut your flying costs in HALF, even if you
keep your membership. If you sell your membership after three years,
your cost of putting those 300 hours in your logbooks is ONE THIRD of
what you would h ave paid as a renter. That includes an engine
overhaul or replacement somewhere n that three years.

The only "downside" is that this is a basic VFR fun / $100 hamburger /
keep current airplane. No G-1000 big-screen TV, no autopilot, no
instrument work. This will be for people to fly inexpensively, not
watch $100K worth of gadgets and blinking lights. Your $300 used
handheld GPS will get you to the hamburger just as precisely as the
big gadgets will. You want gadgets... go spend half a million on aCirrus!

Local pilots please contact me at *victorbravo at sbcglobal {dot}}
net and let me know if this would interest you or if/why it would
not.


Just curious, how many new-build buyers opt not to have gadgets in the
cockpit?
Ads
  #2  
Old May 6th 09, 04:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.marketplace
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP

On May 5, 6:20*pm, Sunho wrote:
On Mar 27, 9:18*am, wrote:



Keep flying in spite of the economy !


This is a notice to determine if there is interests in a no-frills,
super-frugal club, based on 1/10 ownership of a classic 1950's VFR
Cessna 172 in the northern Los Angeles metro area. We are considering
forming a club around this aircraft, and we want to see what the level
of interest is.


The big idea is to make it LESS expensive than other clubs or
expensive airplane fractional ownership schemes. We are shooting for a
$3995 buy-in which includes club membership entry fee AND a 1/10
ownership in the aircraft. There would be a low monthly fee, maybe
$50, that would cover normal annuals, tiedown, and insurance. There
would hopefully be a zero or very very low ($5) hourly charge. Non-
routine maintenance, overhaul, upgrades, etc. would be voted on and
assessed only if/when needed. The older 172's with manual flaps and
simple basic electronics are pretty low maintenance.


The club would be limited to ten members. Students would be WELCOME,
the insurance will be set up to allow student pilots to use the
airplane for lessons! You can save a FORTUNE on training costs this
way!


Compared to renting a more modern 172 at the local FBO, our basic
calculations indicate that for a three year period, flying 100 hours a
year (300 total), you could cut your flying costs in HALF, even if you
keep your membership. If you sell your membership after three years,
your cost of putting those 300 hours in your logbooks is ONE THIRD of
what you would h ave paid as a renter. That includes an engine
overhaul or replacement somewhere n that three years.


The only "downside" is that this is a basic VFR fun / $100 hamburger /
keep current airplane. No G-1000 big-screen TV, no autopilot, no
instrument work. This will be for people to fly inexpensively, not
watch $100K worth of gadgets and blinking lights. Your $300 used
handheld GPS will get you to the hamburger just as precisely as the
big gadgets will. You want gadgets... go spend half a million on aCirrus!


Local pilots please contact me at *victorbravo at sbcglobal {dot}}
net and let me know if this would interest you or if/why it would
not.


Just curious, how many new-build buyers opt not to have gadgets in the
cockpit?


I'm guessing not many. But I'll also guess that the main reason is
that if you can $200k for the basics, you might as well pay $240k to
have all the bells and whistles -- you can always ignore them and just
look out the window. I personally would love to have a pretty G1000, I
just can't pay for it.
  #3  
Old May 7th 09, 12:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.marketplace
Kobra[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP


"Sunho" wrote in message
...
On Mar 27, 9:18 am, wrote:
Keep flying in spite of the economy !

This is a notice to determine if there is interests in a no-frills,
super-frugal club, based on 1/10 ownership of a classic 1950's VFR
Cessna 172 in the northern Los Angeles metro area. We are considering
forming a club around this aircraft, and we want to see what the level
of interest is.

The big idea is to make it LESS expensive than other clubs or
expensive airplane fractional ownership schemes. We are shooting for a
$3995 buy-in which includes club membership entry fee AND a 1/10
ownership in the aircraft. There would be a low monthly fee, maybe
$50, that would cover normal annuals, tiedown, and insurance. There
would hopefully be a zero or very very low ($5) hourly charge. Non-
routine maintenance, overhaul, upgrades, etc. would be voted on and
assessed only if/when needed. The older 172's with manual flaps and
simple basic electronics are pretty low maintenance.

The club would be limited to ten members. Students would be WELCOME,
the insurance will be set up to allow student pilots to use the
airplane for lessons! You can save a FORTUNE on training costs this
way!

Compared to renting a more modern 172 at the local FBO, our basic
calculations indicate that for a three year period, flying 100 hours a
year (300 total), you could cut your flying costs in HALF, even if you
keep your membership. If you sell your membership after three years,
your cost of putting those 300 hours in your logbooks is ONE THIRD of
what you would h ave paid as a renter. That includes an engine
overhaul or replacement somewhere n that three years.

The only "downside" is that this is a basic VFR fun / $100 hamburger /
keep current airplane. No G-1000 big-screen TV, no autopilot, no
instrument work. This will be for people to fly inexpensively, not
watch $100K worth of gadgets and blinking lights. Your $300 used
handheld GPS will get you to the hamburger just as precisely as the
big gadgets will. You want gadgets... go spend half a million on aCirrus!

Local pilots please contact me at victorbravo at sbcglobal {dot}}
net and let me know if this would interest you or if/why it would
not.


Let me crush your dreams:

First of all good luck finding 10 consistent reliable trustworthy easy-going
people to buy in to a plane.

How many hours are left on the engine before major OH and how much will it
cost to do that? That's what will determine your hourly engine OH
amortization/reserve. If the engine is at half time (1000 hours) and a
major OH cost about 20,000.00 for engine removal, OH, reinstallation and
shipping, you're looking at 20 bucks an hour for the engine OH.

Fuel is averaging about 3.90 per gallon and I would figure on a fuel burn of
9 GPH. That will cost 35.10 per hour in fuel.

Five dollars will NOT cut it for unforeseen maintenance. You will need to
be closer to 15.

Add 3 dollars per hour for oil change and a dollar per hour for oil
consumption.

Let's see...hmmm...that's 20 + 35.10 + 15 + 3 + 1 = $74.00 per hour wet
variable costs.

Now let's look at the fixed costs:

Now an annual will cost you about 900.00 JUST FOR THE INSPECTION. This will
not include any maintenance required.
There's storage (hangar: 400.00 per month, Tiedown 75.00 per month)
Insurance: 1,200.00 per year (100.00 per month)
Loan payment: 40,000 plane at 7% interest over 10 years = $464.43 per month

Let's see...hmmm...75.00 annual + 75.00 tiedown + 100.00 insurance + 464.43
loan payment = 714.43 per month even if you don't fly a single hour.

Now we didn't even talk about it's eventual and inevitable exterior paint
job. That's 8 to 10 grand and if it is kept outside that will have to be
done in the next 5 or 6 years. That's 112.00 per month paint reserve if
you're so inclined.

The following costs do NOT include the principle part of the loan...only
interest for the first year:

If you own the plane by yourself and fly 100 hours per year it will cost you
1,067.58 per month wet.
With two people flying 100 hours per year it will cost you about 829.69 per
month wet. (nice savings!)
With three people flying 100 hours per year it will cost you about 750.40
per month wet. (not bad savings)
With four people flying 100 hours per year it will cost you about 710.75 per
month wet. (very little savings)
With five people flying 100 hours per year it will cost you about 686.96 per
month wet. (almost not worth it savings)
With six people flying 100 hours per year it will cost you about 671.10 per
month wet. (not worth it at all)

See what's going on here? After the third partner, the cost savings verses
the use of the plane and inconvenience of having him just aint worth the
savings to take him on.

Kobra


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP [email protected] Aviation Marketplace 7 May 7th 09 03:32 PM
CHEAP Los Angeles C-172 Flying Club CHEAP xyzzy Owning 0 April 6th 09 03:31 PM
CHEAP L. A. Area Flying Club C-172 [email protected] Owning 4 April 5th 09 03:22 PM
Flying on the Cheap - VOX [email protected] Home Built 6 February 27th 06 04:01 AM
Flying on the Cheap - Again [email protected] Home Built 9 January 23rd 05 05:25 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.