Metal, low-wing, plansbuilt

Rocky wrote:
Oliver Arend wrote:
I'm looking into educating myself about metal aircraft construction by
getting a set of plans for a low-wing airplane. The idea is then to
either design my own plane (no, looking at the plans is not the full
education, there's also a master's degree in aerospace engineering,
I'm more looking for detail solutions so I won't have to come up with
everything by myself) or just build the one I got the plans for. My
choice is metal since I'm more confident with this (my skills)+
(material) combination than with others. Wading through the Kitplanes
directories I have a couple of candidates:

Hummel Bird, UltraCruiser
Mustang Aero Midget, Mustang II
Sonex
Zodiac CH 601, 650, XL
DCS Mini Coupe, Teenie Two
Thorp T-18
Emile Lucas L5, L6, L8, L11/12
Pazmany PL-1, PL-2, PL-4
Thatcher CX-4
(oh yeah, then there is also the Ryan ST-R replica, but that's
probably too much to ask for right now)

Judging from my very limited experience, the Sonex plans seem to be
very detailed and complete, but also steep in price ($600 according to
Kitplanes). Zodiacs, T-18s, and Pazmany designs seem to be very
popular, so the plans can't be all that bad? On the lower end, there
are the Hummel, Mustang and DCS, but they get very little coverage,
apart from the occasional mention of the Hummel Bird or the Teenie Two
by VW aficionados (I do like the Mini Coupe, though). Just looking at
the price, the plans can't be as detailed as others. CX-4, L5, L6 etc.
I've never heard of.

So my question is, who has experience with these plans(-built
aircraft) and can recommend a set?

Oliver
Try the Sonerai from Great Plains AC. Plans are /were $125.00
and $13K to $15K finished!
Rocky
Sonerai SII LTS

I thought the Sonerai was tube and fabric and thus, probably a wood wing?

"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
Rocky wrote:
Oliver Arend wrote:
I'm looking into educating myself about metal aircraft construction
by
getting a set of plans for a low-wing airplane. The idea is then to
either design my own plane (no, looking at the plans is not the
full
education, there's also a master's degree in aerospace engineering,
I'm more looking for detail solutions so I won't have to come up
with
everything by myself) or just build the one I got the plans for. My
choice is metal since I'm more confident with this (my skills)+
(material) combination than with others. Wading through the
Kitplanes
directories I have a couple of candidates:

Hummel Bird, UltraCruiser
Mustang Aero Midget, Mustang II
Sonex
Zodiac CH 601, 650, XL
DCS Mini Coupe, Teenie Two
Thorp T-18
Emile Lucas L5, L6, L8, L11/12
Pazmany PL-1, PL-2, PL-4
Thatcher CX-4
(oh yeah, then there is also the Ryan ST-R replica, but that's
probably too much to ask for right now)

Judging from my very limited experience, the Sonex plans seem to be
very detailed and complete, but also steep in price ($600 according
to
Kitplanes). Zodiacs, T-18s, and Pazmany designs seem to be very
popular, so the plans can't be all that bad? On the lower end,
there
are the Hummel, Mustang and DCS, but they get very little coverage,
apart from the occasional mention of the Hummel Bird or the Teenie
Two
by VW aficionados (I do like the Mini Coupe, though). Just looking
at
the price, the plans can't be as detailed as others. CX-4, L5, L6
etc.
I've never heard of.

So my question is, who has experience with these plans(-built
aircraft) and can recommend a set?

Oliver
Try the Sonerai from Great Plains AC. Plans are /were $125.00
and $13K to $15K finished!
Rocky
Sonerai SII LTS

I thought the Sonerai was tube and fabric and thus, probably a wood
wing?

The Sonerai's are tube and fabric fuselage with metal wings.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/sonerai.html He probably confused it with
the Sonex http://www.sonexaircraft.com/aircraft/sonex.html

--
A man is known by the company he keeps- Unknown

Anyolmouse

Scott wrote:
Rocky wrote:

Oliver Arend wrote:

I'm looking into educating myself about metal aircraft construction by
getting a set of plans for a low-wing airplane. The idea is then to
either design my own plane (no, looking at the plans is not the full
education, there's also a master's degree in aerospace engineering,
I'm more looking for detail solutions so I won't have to come up with
everything by myself) or just build the one I got the plans for. My
choice is metal since I'm more confident with this (my skills)+
(material) combination than with others. Wading through the Kitplanes
directories I have a couple of candidates:

Hummel Bird, UltraCruiser
Mustang Aero Midget, Mustang II
Sonex
Zodiac CH 601, 650, XL
DCS Mini Coupe, Teenie Two
Thorp T-18
Emile Lucas L5, L6, L8, L11/12
Pazmany PL-1, PL-2, PL-4
Thatcher CX-4
(oh yeah, then there is also the Ryan ST-R replica, but that's
probably too much to ask for right now)

Judging from my very limited experience, the Sonex plans seem to be
very detailed and complete, but also steep in price ($600 according to
Kitplanes). Zodiacs, T-18s, and Pazmany designs seem to be very
popular, so the plans can't be all that bad? On the lower end, there
are the Hummel, Mustang and DCS, but they get very little coverage,
apart from the occasional mention of the Hummel Bird or the Teenie Two
by VW aficionados (I do like the Mini Coupe, though). Just looking at
the price, the plans can't be as detailed as others. CX-4, L5, L6 etc.
I've never heard of.

So my question is, who has experience with these plans(-built
aircraft) and can recommend a set?

Oliver

Try the Sonerai from Great Plains AC. Plans are /were $125.00
and $13K to $15K finished!
Rocky
Sonerai SII LTS


I thought the Sonerai was tube and fabric and thus, probably a wood wing?

The fuse is tube and fabric but the wing is 100% aluminum, spar - ribs
and skin
Rocky

In article
,
Oliver Arend wrote:

Thanks for the input, guys, the RV-9 preview plans and the Tony
Bingelis book arrived in the mail recently and I've got lots of
"looking at" (and drooling over, sometimes) to do.

For a first plane, I might opt for a small, inexpensive one-seater
kit, though. We'll see.

Oliver

Advice: If you are going to go to the effort of building a plane, build
one that fulfills your desired mission. You cannot take a passenger
along in a single-seater.

It is really hard to beat Van's planes and kits. He has improved
everything he has produced in the last 30 years.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Thanks for the input, guys, the RV-9 preview plans and the Tony
Bingelis book arrived in the mail recently and I've got lots of
"looking at" (and drooling over, sometimes) to do.

For a first plane, I might opt for a small, inexpensive one-seater
kit, though. We'll see.

Oliver

In article o_r_fairbairn-ABEA2C.14252806112009@70-3-168-
216.pools.spcsdns.net, says...

In article
,
Oliver Arend wrote:

Thanks for the input, guys, the RV-9 preview plans and the Tony
Bingelis book arrived in the mail recently and I've got lots of
"looking at" (and drooling over, sometimes) to do.

For a first plane, I might opt for a small, inexpensive one-seater
kit, though. We'll see.

Oliver

Advice: If you are going to go to the effort of building a plane, build
one that fulfills your desired mission. You cannot take a passenger
along in a single-seater.

It is really hard to beat Van's planes and kits. He has improved
everything he has produced in the last 30 years.



If you wanna build, build.

If you wanna fly, buy.




The numbers of flying kitplanes in the 'for sale'-departement are just
enormous, some of them are even cheaper than the components.

Can't really comprehend why somebody puts 10 years of work, 80 kUS$, a
broken marriage in a kitplane, then flies it for about 100 hours and
goes on to sell it for 50 kUS$... in order to buy a new kit.

I bought mine: metal, low-wing, O-200 2-seater. I kinda like it :-)

Tom -wants to fly- De Moor

Tom De Moor wrote:
If you wanna build, build.

If you wanna fly, buy.

If you wanna design ... then what? (The opine needs to rhyme.)

(From the OP: "I'm looking into educating myself ... then to
either design my own plane....")

The numbers of flying kitplanes in the 'for sale'-departement are just
enormous, some of them are even cheaper than the components.

Why do you suppose they are cheaper? ;-)

Can't really comprehend why somebody puts 10 years of work, 80 kUS$, a
broken marriage in a kitplane, then flies it for about 100 hours and
goes on to sell it for 50 kUS$... in order to buy a new kit.

If that were the norm, it would indeed be a psychological puzzler. But of
course that combo isn't anywhere near the norm.

I bought mine: metal, low-wing, O-200 2-seater. I kinda like it :-)

Good for you! Nothing like owning - except maybe building. :-)

In article ,
says...

Tom De Moor wrote:
If you wanna build, build.

If you wanna fly, buy.

If you wanna design ... then what? (The opine needs to rhyme.)

(From the OP: "I'm looking into educating myself ... then to
either design my own plane....")

The numbers of flying kitplanes in the 'for sale'-departement are just
enormous, some of them are even cheaper than the components.


Didn't catch the design-desire. Designing your own would indeed be the
sole reason why I could ever imagine building a plane.


Why do you suppose they are cheaper? ;-)

Do not know: some of the experimentals -mine too- sport avionics with a
price tag that would make some grown-ups weep. Yett these items did not
influence the selling price by a lot.

With homebuilts there are indeed also buckets but then some homebuilts
are made to standards where Piper and other Cessna can only dream about.

I was rather hesitant into buying an 'experimental'. So I looked for
certified airplanes: I found situations on certified airplanes that
maked the most fraudulent used car dealers look like angels.

On the first (certified) plane I bought, I had to send a lawyer with a
big stick in (the seller didn't twitch an eyelid), shortly there after
followed by the CAA of the land in question. The last move proved the
right one: got my money back and they retook the plane with all its
defects.


Can't really comprehend why somebody puts 10 years of work, 80 kUS$, a
broken marriage in a kitplane, then flies it for about 100 hours and
goes on to sell it for 50 kUS$... in order to buy a new kit.

If that were the norm, it would indeed be a psychological puzzler. But of
course that combo isn't anywhere near the norm.

I've been actively looking for the last year and for some reason the
planes on my 'go and check'-list turned out to be in that categorie.

I bought mine: metal, low-wing, O-200 2-seater. I kinda like it :-)

Good for you! Nothing like owning - except maybe building. :-)

Definitely not building. Designing and then building: maybe but you'll
sure spend far more time and money. But then there are always exceptions
proving the opposite.

It's like the old days: we used to make racing cars. When we got it
right (2-3 seasons after commencing) our cars were indeed better than
the competition as we eyed the details much more. But it turned out that
we were working at around 5 US$ per hr... and winning races didn't earn
the differance :-)

It may be a bit crude but if some-one is thinking that building a plane
will land him a cheaper plane than buying one, he is probably fooling
himself.

Just my 2 (euro)cents, a pity that the Atlantic Ocean is so wide as for
the moment US-pricing seems so sweet to us ;-)

Tom De Moor

On Oct 14, 9:54*am, Jim Logajan wrote:
Oliver Arend wrote:
I'm looking into educating myself about metal aircraft construction by
getting a set of plans for a low-wing airplane. The idea is then to
either design my own plane (no, looking at the plans is not the full
education, there's also a master's degree in aerospace engineering,
I'm more looking for detail solutions so I won't have to come up with
everything by myself) or just build the one I got the plans for.
[...]
So my question is, who has experience with these plans(-built
aircraft) and can recommend a set?

You listed a lot of good options that I elided - just to make it harder:

A couple years back, I ordered the preview plans for Vans RV-9A for $55.
They are still that price (RV-3 is $45.) As far as I know, the only
difference between Van's Aircraft preview plans and the final set is that
the preview plan drawings are reduced in size by half (I think) - but they
are all there and quite readable. Also, you get the complete build
instructions plus other material. It's a fabulous deal education-wise even
if you design or build something else.

A correction is needed on the Van's plans. While the earlier kits can
be built from scratch using the plans, the newer models are intended
to be sold only as kits. The plans/manual is basically an assembly
manual. Parts that must be fabricated by the builder have full
construction details, but parts supplied in the kit ready to assemble
are not detailed on the plans with enough info to scratch build the
parts.

Having said that, it's unlikely that you will find a better plane to
own & fly once it's built.

Charlie
(somewhat biased; flying a -4 & building a -7)