Personal Weather Minimums

I just wanted to open a discussion regarding other's personal weather
minimums for VFR flights. I recently received my PPL ASEL certificate in
July and most of the days that I have flown have been very nice days.
Yesterday though I got caught a bit off guard and it prompted me to set a
few minimums for myself.

The sky was perfectly clear, the temperature was mid 50's but it was windy
and gusty. In my training I was fairly proficient with cross-winds and my
home airport has two strips so usually I'd be landing with a 45 degree
component or less. Yesterday however winds were sustained around 15 knots
and gusts to 20+. I took off from Wilmington, NC (KILM) in a Cessna 172
and flew a couple of friends to lunch in North Myrtle Beach (KCRE). One of
my friends I found out gets air/sea/car sick very easily and he didn't take
anything before hand. It was a fairly rough ride and a rough day for him.
When we landed in Myrtle the winds of course were roughly 90 degrees but
only around 10 knots so it wasn't that bad. I did well with the landing
but I was a bit nervous. On the return the wind in Wilmington was much
stronger but only about a 60 degree component. The landing wasn't great
but it was safe. When I kicked the rudder to line up the plane I didn't
lower the left wing enough and moved towards the right side of the runway.

I realize that everyone is going to be different based on experience level
but I'm trying to get others thoughts for inexperienced pilots like myself.
Please comment on ceilings, winds, and visibility.

FryGuy wrote:

I just wanted to open a discussion regarding other's personal weather
minimums for VFR flights.

First off, there are several aspects of weather to consider, but I'll throw my
hat in the ring. I have between 850 and 900 hours, fly a taildragger Maule, and
have a bit over 500 hours in the plane. About 1/3 of my time is cross-country.

As far as wind goes, I will not go if the crosswind component at one of my
destinations is over 20 knots, unless I have an alternate for that destination.
Crosswinds over 15 knots will have me asking the old WWII question "Is this trip
really necessary?". This is especially true if conditions are getting worse;
weather has been known to move faster than forecast.

I will not fly into potential icing conditions. I cancelled one trip because the
freezing level was 0' AGL at my planned overnight stop and rain was forecast for
sometime that afternoon or evening.

If conditions are stable, I will fly in ceilings as low as 1,500', especially
if conditions are expected to improve along my route.

If conditions are stable, I will fly in visibility of 3 miles in haze. If the
ceiling is low, I want better visibility.

The worst I've been in was a lowering ceiling of about 1,000' in rain. I could
see out of the left side of the windshield about as far as you can normally see
things at 600' AGL. I put down at the first airport I came to. If there had not
been one fairly close, I would have returned to the one I had just left (which
was in better weather).

I'm also very leery of fog. I will set down if the dew point/temperature spread
is getting close.

Another "soft" rule I have is to not fly long distances when the weather turns
out different from yesterday's forecast. If it was supposed to be lousy weather
and turns out to be CAVU, I stay close to home. The weather people obviously
don't have clue today.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
Another "soft" rule I have is to not fly long distances when the
weather turns out different from yesterday's forecast. If it was
supposed to be lousy weather and turns out to be CAVU, I stay close
to home. The weather people obviously don't have clue today.

If the forecast is a bust, it's good to think about *why* it was wrong.

Weather changes for two basic reasons -- either the qualities of the
airmass where your at has changed, or a different airmass has moved in.
Let's say yesterday they were forecasting today to be rainshowers,
thunderstorms, and strong gusty winds, but it turns out it's really
CAVU. It could just be that an approaching cold front got here faster
than expected and the frontal mess is already past. One quick look at
the weather map might show you that there's a high over the midwest and
perfect weather clear out to colorado. Surely that's no reason to
cancel a trip?

I'm trying to get others thoughts for inexperienced pilots like myself.
Please comment on ceilings, winds, and visibility.

I live in central PA, where the airports are usually in the valleys
and the ridges are typically a thousand feet higher, so I won't set
out on a VFR cross-country unless the ceiling at the airport is at
least 2000. If it's less than that, I file IFR.

I'll also file IFR if the viz is less than six miles; it may be less a
few miles from here.

The ridges are aligned 060-240. A NW wind at 20k or more can produce
serious turbulence (but also produce excellent soaring conditions). A
SW wind of the same velocity is not as turbulent.

vince norris

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:49:41 +0000, FryGuy wrote:

I realize that everyone is going to be different based on experience level
but I'm trying to get others thoughts for inexperienced pilots like myself.
Please comment on ceilings, winds, and visibility.

I like to fly at least 1,000 AGL, so the ceiling would be that which gives
me the clearance to legally fly, it varies depending on where I fly
however, i.e. rough terrain it goes up.

Winds, depends on if I'm flying by myself or passengers. I'll accept a
very rough ride by myself, less so with passengers. As a general rule I
don't fly passengers when the wind gets above 25 knots on the ground.
I'll fly up to 30 knots as long as I know I can takeoff and land within
the limitations of my plane, I like a 5 knot margin on it, so if my plane
will handle 15 knots crosswind, then I won't fly away from the pattern if
the winds exceed 10 knots crosswind either where I'm going or coming back
to. Too much risk of not being able to land where I take off from.

Visibility depends on the direction I fly and what I'm doing. 3 miles is
no fun on a cross country, yet I would do 5. What you have to realize is
that if you have 3 miles visibility when you are flying away from the sun,
you won't have that flying into the sun, so that's why the direction is
important, i.e. AWOS may claim 5 miles, but you try flying with that 5
miles into the sun and you'll quickly find it's less, at least with the
AWOS at our field it works that way. So you'll notice my minimums vary
according to the type of flying I'll be doing. Even though you can
legally fly with 1 mile vis in G you'll be taking a big risk in doing so
because it can quickly go less, same goes with 3 miles vis.

I think you'll find there is no single figure that will work for a
minimum, it's how they all fit together and how you feel that day that
determines if I fly.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ...

Another "soft" rule I have is to not fly long distances when the weather turns
out different from yesterday's forecast. If it was supposed to be lousy weather
and turns out to be CAVU, I stay close to home. The weather people obviously
don't have clue today.

George,

I would say the "devil is in the details" here.

ie, if it was supposed to be lousy wx but is CAVU, why? Is there
a frontal system approaching which has slowed down, leaving its
bad wx parked somewhere else? Or is there a frontal system which
blew through faster than forecast leaving everything clear and
blue for miles in its wake?

I guess I don't see the point of staying home categorically if
the wx is different than forecast. The question is "why"?

Cheers,
Sydney

We require 3000' and five miles visibility for all student solo flights,
with maximum crosswinds of six knots. I recommend that new private pilots
maintain those minimums for some time, preferably until they start their
instrument training.

Snowbird wrote:

I guess I don't see the point of staying home categorically if
the wx is different than forecast. The question is "why"?

You and Roy are correct. That's why it's a "soft" rule.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

"C J Campbell" wrote
We require 3000' and five miles visibility for all student solo flights,
with maximum crosswinds of six knots. I recommend that new private pilots
maintain those minimums for some time, preferably until they start their
instrument training.

As a contrasting opinion, I consider those limitations appropriate to
a newly soloed student who is still having problems with crosswind
landings and navigation by pilotage, and that's about all. They are
both overly restrictive for most normal conditions and overly
simplistic. I would consider sending someone to the checkride who
actually needed such limitations for safety to be a gross abdication
of instructor responsibility. Such minimums are absolutely not
appropriate for a certificated pilot. I wouldn't even accept an
instrument student who needed (or felt he needed) such weather
minimums.

Personal minimums are a lot more complex than a simple statement of
ceiling, vis, and crosswind component. What constitutes an acceptable
ceiling greatly depends on terrain, obstructions, and visibility under
the ceiling. It also depends a lot on WHY the ceiling is what it is,
and what it can reasonably be expected to do as the flight progresses.
Over flatlands in good vis and stable weather, 3000 is clearly
excessive. In the mountains in poor vis, it may not be nearly enough.

Adequate visibility is another can of worms. Five miles (or even
three) is plenty in daylight, well above terrain, over land, if
navigation can be assured (either by following a road or
electronically). Try that trick over water or desolate terrain at
night, and your instrument attittude flying skills better be in good
shape.

Crosswinds are similarly complicated. A competent pilot really
shouldn't need ANY crosswind minimum. Obviously this does not mean
that he should be able to handle unlimited crosswinds - nobody can do
that. However, it DOES mean he should be able to reliably asess the
approach and landing he is making, and make the decision to go around
in a timely manner. With experience, most pilots develop a feel for
what they can and can't handle, depending on the airplane, runway, and
other variables.

Michael

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:15:36 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

We require 3000' and five miles visibility for all student solo flights,
with maximum crosswinds of six knots. I recommend that new private pilots
maintain those minimums for some time, preferably until they start their
instrument training.


That would effectively ground me for most of the summer. Things just
don't get that good visibility wise in the PHL area in the hot months.
Rich Russell