If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
On Feb 2, 6:52*pm, frank wrote:
OK guys, take a deep breath. Couple of points. Its a GAO study. Some of them are good, some of them are well, studies. GAO does not have subject matter experts. Think of grad students that go out and write a paper on something. Like I said, some good, some bad. Some really atrocious. One point to consider. It costs a lot of bucks to keep planes ready on the tarmac. Backups, maintenance, crews. And its boring. Some places like Alaska, yeah you get some launches. Most places you end up playing games. And remember, 9/11 was launched INTERNALLY. Anybody here want to shoot down an American airliner? Over the US? Thought not. And yeah, there are still NORAD or ADC sectors that take care of air traffic. Lots of them. I think it was Vanity Fair that broke the story on this when the tapes from the sector that dealt with NY and DC were declassified. Read through the transcripts, its like anything else, real time, nobody knows what's going on. Like we always used to joke, best Intel was from CNN. That's not too far from the truth. Bluntly, we don't need a lot of effort spent on this. It'll probably never happen again, and there are better ways to prevent it. OK, besides letting groups of Arab looking guys get on the same flight with box cutters. IF you look at what happened on 9/11 and where the system failed, I'm not going to say the US is doing much better on all this. At least El Al has professionals doing their flight screening. But we can't afford to do that. Or we will until the first quarter bill comes in. Agreed. Bluntly, we don't need a lot of effort spent on this. It'll probably never happen again, and there are better ways to prevent it. OK, besides letting groups of Arab looking guys get on the same flight with box cutters. In a purely speculative sense, one would think that some common sense measures that were mandated to be in place years ago - especially secured cockpit doors and bulkheads proof against small arms - would pretty much render the question hypothetical. While hijacker(s) of any motive might get loose in the cabin with a box cutter or even a small arm of some variety, if they can't get into the cockpit, they can't control the aircraft. A hijacker is essentially reduced to two gruesome options: threaten to start carving up passengers if his demands aren't met - which, while a psychological burden on the cockpit crew, it isn't likely a demand to be met post 9/11, or threaten to detonate a bomb which will destroy the plane - which is a possibility, but lack of control denies them the aircraft itself as a weapon of any accuracy. Not much point in shooting down an airliner that can't be hijacked from its intended course, regardless of whatever tragedies might occurring in the cabin. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
hcobb wrote in news:652ccc48-41dd-4d32-923a-
: On 9/11 random airline passengers were better prepared to defend America than the USAF was. What exactly has changed since? Klintoon is out of office. And we've had 8 years to think about the consequences of letting our guard down. Plus ample demonstration of the kind of domestic enemies who still think its 9/10. IBM |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
"dott.Piergiorgio" wrote in
: [snip] a/c as weapon) the morale of the entire AF involved is guaranteed to plummet to the very low, esp. of the people more or less directly involved in giving executing that order. In mission control at NASA there is a switch that destroys the launch vehicle should it show signs of endangering the civilian population. That protocol includes the manned vehicles. Its a bitch of a responsibility but necessary. IBM |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:25:48 -0600, Ian B MacLure
wrote: Jeff Dougherty wrote in news:61f32a71-61f7- : On Feb 1, 10:18*pm, "dott.Piergiorgio" wrote: Trouble is, in a new 9/11 emergency, Pilots will have the will and nerves to shoot knowing that they are killing also civilians ? I'm fairly certain American pilots would, if they were in a 9/11 type In a new 9/11 situation the hijackers wouldn't have made it out of their seats. The other passengers would disembowel them with plastic cutlery and use their guts to tie the remains into very small bundles. Some looney went nuts on a plane here recently and wound up subject to the undivided attention of some very ****ed off fellow passengers. Anything that looks even slightly hinky around me gets reported and I start looking for something to use as a weapon until the cavalry arrives. IBM The one all purpose carry on weapon still allowed is the big heavy cowboy belt buckle. Slip off the belt and raise hell. Sorry for the rant and the unrealistic scenario, but it just blows my mind that only slightly more than a dozen fighters were on station. Might as well phase out NORAD altogether except for missile defense and retaliation. TL |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:45:03 -0600, Ian B MacLure
wrote: hcobb wrote in news:da77e6cd-ee43-4fcb-8644- : [snip] Now if Europe fails to back President Neo against terrorist states and so forces America to take action to take out the danger (that is even more acute for Europe simply because they don't got no Atlantic moat for the limited protection that offers in a global world), then the blame for the hundreds, thousands or millions of lives to be lost does not fall on America. And of course the Eurabians including Il Dottore's country all have enormous Mooselimb fifth columns resident therein and a power elite that seems determined to hand them the knives they will use to slit Eurabian throats. Could I humbly sugggest that you look into muslim populations before you spew your tripe? The US has a larger Muslim population than any European country but Russia. On a per cant basis it is near the European median. That or use smileys. Peter Skelton |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace
On Feb 2, 9:51*pm, Ian B MacLure wrote:
150flivver wrote in news:359a3711-b5ea-4741- : On Feb 2, 3:08*am, hcobb wrote: On Feb 2, 6:45 am, 150flivver wrote: Exactly how was the Air Force supposed to prevent 9/11? *I guess the Air Force wasn't prepared to prevent the banking crisis or global warming either. Which service is it that's supposed to at least intercept hostile aircraft in American skies? Perhaps this also should be handed over to the USMC? -HJC 9/11 was a criminal act conducted by foreign criminals. *Calling it * * * * It was an act of war by a non-state actor. We quite properly * * * * took it at face value and opened hostilities on the actors * * * * and their supporters. war doesn't make it so. *Law enforcement is something I don't want the military involved in. *The FBI and CIA dropped the ball on this one, not the Air Force. *Shooting down airliners filled with hostages/ citizens is something the Soviet Union would do, not what the USA does. * * * * The FBI and CIA had been knecapped by Jamie Gorelick at Klintoon's * * * * behest. It was more than your career was worth to ask inconvenient * * * * questions or, god forbid, share information. Many of the necessary * * * * dots were already plotted. They just could not legally be connected * * * * and it took an enormous effort against determined Dhimmicrap * * * * opposition to change that situation. * * * * IBM IIRC Clinton left office in January 2001, the FBI and CIA continued their feud that says "I won't tell you anything you can use", and FBI telephone taps that should have been tied to that "Osama bin Ladin wants to do harm to the US" line in the PDB. As near as I can tell that division still exists, perhaps expanded by the NSA being able to say "I know something you don't". We now have an extra level of DNI to add to the various inter service and interagency versions of that same attitude. I would bet that more useful intelligence gets stuffed into burn bags than gets into the PDB. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace | T.L. Davis | Naval Aviation | 12 | February 3rd 09 02:09 AM |
Help Us Protect Wickenburg Municipal Airport | Mike[_22_] | Piloting | 0 | September 10th 08 05:39 AM |
Wichita Airspace Question and overlapping airspace | Owen[_4_] | Piloting | 1 | February 14th 07 09:35 PM |
Policy OKs First Strike to Protect U.S.(NOT US BUT ISRAEL!) | [email protected] | Naval Aviation | 1 | March 21st 05 06:44 AM |
Two airspace classes for one airspace? (KOQU) | John R | Piloting | 8 | June 30th 04 04:46 AM |