On making it difficult for everyone else

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
. ..

Regrettably all a current medical certificate is useful for is knowing
that the recipient WAS fit to fly at the time that they took the medical.
Half an hour later, who knows.

It's actually a little better than that. Since you must report all
medications you are taking, the medical examiner can assess if one, or a
combination of several medications, might impair your coordination and/or
judgment which could affect your ability to act as PIC (or to drive a car
for that matter).

On the other hand, the AOPA is fond of (correctly) reporting that there is
no statistical correlation between a pilot having a medical certificate
and accidents due to medical causes.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

My dad passed his 3rd class medical in the morning. Went out to the airport
to test fly an airplane he was thinking of buying. Then passed out in mens
room at the FBO from some complication from his (up to then) undetected
prostate cancer (It was never clear to me excatly why he passed out...)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On May 3, 5:21 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5621

Frank,

Before you run off and start demonizing a pilot LEGALLY excercising
his rights, you should research the subject. The fact is that
possessing a current Airmen's medical is not guarantee WHATSOEVER that
the pilot is fit to fly on any given day.

I just received a medical denial letter from the FAA because I was
taking Trazodone for insomnia. Insominia is not by itself a disabling
medical condition, but Trazodone is on their prohibited list because
it is an old anti-depresent drug. ALL anti-depresents are prohibited.
PERIOD. It does not matter what the condition is for which you are
taking the prescribed medicine: medical denied, DO NOT FLY! Well, I am
flying my glider while the paper work is being sorted out (I have a
different, much more expensive, drug prescribed for the same IDENTICAL
condition). By your reasoning, I AM UNFIT TO FLY. PERIOD, END OF
STORY! because I don't have a CURRENT MEDICAL! Never mind that glider
pilots DO NOT NEED A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to LEGALLY fly!!

My doctor DOES have a disabling disease; it is DIABETES. But he is
LEGALLY able to fly his motorgliders WITHOUT an aviation medical. I am
very confident in his ability to fly his motorgliders, to the extent
that I have allowed my wife, my kids and my mother to fly with him. By
your standards he should be GROUNDED!!!

Once, while getting a 3rd class medical, the doctor remarked about my
good health. By comparison, he pointed out another patient of his, to
whom he had granted the 3rd class medical with the warning that he
might not get it the next time, that had DIED within one year! That
guy was LEGALLY fit to fly, but died shortly after getting the
medical.

What you apparently don't realize is the system is more about the FAA
covering their respective asses than it is about protecting the
public. The system TOTALLY depends upon self reporting of medical
conditions; if you report you come under INTENSE SCRUTINY. Thus, the
incentive is: DO NOT REPORT! The Inspector General did a study
matching Social Security disability payments with certified pilots.
They found nearly 10% held CURRENT MEDICAL CERTIFICATES while
simultaneously receiving DISABILITY PAYMENTS! Only 40 of these cases
were prosecuted because of limited resources (http://
flightphysical.com/FAA/FAA-Report-Falsification/index.htm). Another
pilot I know once reported that he had an EKG performed that was
negative. The FAA required him to take an ANNUAL EKG for no damn good
reason, just to cover their asses!

Tom

On May 5, 8:40 pm, wrote:
On May 3, 5:21 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5621

Frank,

Before you run off and start demonizing a pilot LEGALLY excercising
his rights, you should research the subject. The fact is that
possessing a current Airmen's medical is not guarantee WHATSOEVER that
the pilot is fit to fly on any given day.

I just received a medical denial letter from the FAA because I was
taking Trazodone for insomnia. Insominia is not by itself a disabling
medical condition, but Trazodone is on their prohibited list because
it is an old anti-depresent drug. ALL anti-depresents are prohibited.
PERIOD. It does not matter what the condition is for which you are
taking the prescribed medicine: medical denied, DO NOT FLY! Well, I am
flying my glider while the paper work is being sorted out (I have a
different, much more expensive, drug prescribed for the same IDENTICAL
condition). By your reasoning, I AM UNFIT TO FLY. PERIOD, END OF
STORY! because I don't have a CURRENT MEDICAL! Never mind that glider
pilots DO NOT NEED A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to LEGALLY fly!!

My doctor DOES have a disabling disease; it is DIABETES. But he is
LEGALLY able to fly his motorgliders WITHOUT an aviation medical. I am
very confident in his ability to fly his motorgliders, to the extent
that I have allowed my wife, my kids and my mother to fly with him. By
your standards he should be GROUNDED!!!

Once, while getting a 3rd class medical, the doctor remarked about my
good health. By comparison, he pointed out another patient of his, to
whom he had granted the 3rd class medical with the warning that he
might not get it the next time, that had DIED within one year! That
guy was LEGALLY fit to fly, but died shortly after getting the
medical.

What you apparently don't realize is the system is more about the FAA
covering their respective asses than it is about protecting the
public. The system TOTALLY depends upon self reporting of medical
conditions; if you report you come under INTENSE SCRUTINY. Thus, the
incentive is: DO NOT REPORT! The Inspector General did a study
matching Social Security disability payments with certified pilots.
They found nearly 10% held CURRENT MEDICAL CERTIFICATES while
simultaneously receiving DISABILITY PAYMENTS! Only 40 of these cases
were prosecuted because of limited resources (http://
flightphysical.com/FAA/FAA-Report-Falsification/index.htm). Another
pilot I know once reported that he had an EKG performed that was
negative. The FAA required him to take an ANNUAL EKG for no damn good
reason, just to cover their asses!

Tom

Yo Tom, I wasn't demonizing anyone and if the pilot in the article
wanted to come out and fly _his_ glider, fine by me, as I've stated
before. However, I think he was flying a _club_ glider and clearly
instructing and towing, at least one of those things he definitely
should not have been doing. At some point, people need enough
personal integrity to do the right thing, especially within a club
framework, where responsibilities extend to the other members. (If
you don't like it, don't fly in clubs). This chap didn't and that's
quite simply stated in the article. I suspect if he had admitted the
loss of his medical and loss of power flight privileges to the club,
that body may well have banned him from flying club equipment and/or
the national association may have prohibited him from instructing.

I knew a youngish, at the time, BGA instructor that lost his
instructor privileges due to a heart valve replacement. He was about
30 and hiked extensively as a second pastime, but a heart valve
replacement may lead to a increase in the chance of clotting, hence
the restriction. He was not banned from flying club or personal
equipment solo.

It's certainly a tough call if it has to be made.

BTW, when the SSF does a safety audit of a soaring site, they do look
to see if the operation is tracking pertinent information about their
flying group, and suggests some internal audits to perform that are
germane to this discussion.

The FAA does all sorts of things. Heck, I know a man, at 79yo, that
got his medical back from a US Senator following a quad by-pass. It
took that sort of clout to stop the FSDO foot dragging and get the
attention of the FAA Flight Surgeon. 79yo pilots don't like to waste
time;^) He wanted to get back to test flying.

Frank

On 5/5/07 11:33 PM, in article
, "Frank Whiteley"
wrote:

On May 5, 8:40 pm, wrote:
On May 3, 5:21 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5621

Frank,

Before you run off and start demonizing a pilot LEGALLY excercising
his rights, you should research the subject. The fact is that
possessing a current Airmen's medical is not guarantee WHATSOEVER that
the pilot is fit to fly on any given day.

I just received a medical denial letter from the FAA because I was
taking Trazodone for insomnia. Insominia is not by itself a disabling
medical condition, but Trazodone is on their prohibited list because
it is an old anti-depresent drug. ALL anti-depresents are prohibited.
PERIOD. It does not matter what the condition is for which you are
taking the prescribed medicine: medical denied, DO NOT FLY! Well, I am
flying my glider while the paper work is being sorted out (I have a
different, much more expensive, drug prescribed for the same IDENTICAL
condition). By your reasoning, I AM UNFIT TO FLY. PERIOD, END OF
STORY! because I don't have a CURRENT MEDICAL! Never mind that glider
pilots DO NOT NEED A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to LEGALLY fly!!

My doctor DOES have a disabling disease; it is DIABETES. But he is
LEGALLY able to fly his motorgliders WITHOUT an aviation medical. I am
very confident in his ability to fly his motorgliders, to the extent
that I have allowed my wife, my kids and my mother to fly with him. By
your standards he should be GROUNDED!!!

Once, while getting a 3rd class medical, the doctor remarked about my
good health. By comparison, he pointed out another patient of his, to
whom he had granted the 3rd class medical with the warning that he
might not get it the next time, that had DIED within one year! That
guy was LEGALLY fit to fly, but died shortly after getting the
medical.

What you apparently don't realize is the system is more about the FAA
covering their respective asses than it is about protecting the
public. The system TOTALLY depends upon self reporting of medical
conditions; if you report you come under INTENSE SCRUTINY. Thus, the
incentive is: DO NOT REPORT! The Inspector General did a study
matching Social Security disability payments with certified pilots.
They found nearly 10% held CURRENT MEDICAL CERTIFICATES while
simultaneously receiving DISABILITY PAYMENTS! Only 40 of these cases
were prosecuted because of limited resources (http://
flightphysical.com/FAA/FAA-Report-Falsification/index.htm). Another
pilot I know once reported that he had an EKG performed that was
negative. The FAA required him to take an ANNUAL EKG for no damn good
reason, just to cover their asses!

Tom

Yo Tom, I wasn't demonizing anyone and if the pilot in the article
wanted to come out and fly _his_ glider, fine by me, as I've stated
before. However, I think he was flying a _club_ glider and clearly
instructing and towing, at least one of those things he definitely
should not have been doing. At some point, people need enough
personal integrity to do the right thing, especially within a club
framework, where responsibilities extend to the other members. (If
you don't like it, don't fly in clubs). This chap didn't and that's
quite simply stated in the article. I suspect if he had admitted the
loss of his medical and loss of power flight privileges to the club,
that body may well have banned him from flying club equipment and/or
the national association may have prohibited him from instructing.

I knew a youngish, at the time, BGA instructor that lost his
instructor privileges due to a heart valve replacement. He was about
30 and hiked extensively as a second pastime, but a heart valve
replacement may lead to a increase in the chance of clotting, hence
the restriction. He was not banned from flying club or personal
equipment solo.

It's certainly a tough call if it has to be made.

BTW, when the SSF does a safety audit of a soaring site, they do look
to see if the operation is tracking pertinent information about their
flying group, and suggests some internal audits to perform that are
germane to this discussion.

The FAA does all sorts of things. Heck, I know a man, at 79yo, that
got his medical back from a US Senator following a quad by-pass. It
took that sort of clout to stop the FSDO foot dragging and get the
attention of the FAA Flight Surgeon. 79yo pilots don't like to waste
time;^) He wanted to get back to test flying.

Frank


All,

I think everyone here needs a basic course in FAA medical standards policy.
I can't provide one here, but recommend you do some research, instead of
just shooting from the hip. Start with the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical
Examiners (available on the FAA website) and pay close attention to the
"protocols" for various diseases.

When you are surprised that someone got their medical back after a CABG
(coronary artery bypass graft), or that it required a US Senator to
intervene, or that the FSDO has any role whatsoever in the medical
certification process, then you are seriously confused about the how system
works. Recommend you also take a look at www.aviationmedicine.com . And if
you have questions, call those guys.

There are many, many airline pilots with valid first class medicals flying
(on special issuance) for things like CABG, heart valve replacement, atrial
fibrillation, ongoing use of anticoagulant medication, history of cancers of
most types, diabetes controlled on oral meds, history of recurrent kidney
stones, history of depression, etc, etc.

It's all in how you approach the FAA.

Frank, the suggestion that clubs start making independent medical
certification decisions is ridiculous. The club should operate within the
law, and let the pilots make the decisions they are supposed to make under
the FAR's (61.53).

Regards,
Bullwinkle

"Bullwinkle" wrote in message
...
On 5/5/07 11:33 PM, in article
, "Frank Whiteley"
wrote:

On May 5, 8:40 pm, wrote:
On May 3, 5:21 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5621

Frank,

Before you run off and start demonizing a pilot LEGALLY excercising
his rights, you should research the subject. The fact is that
possessing a current Airmen's medical is not guarantee WHATSOEVER that
the pilot is fit to fly on any given day.

I just received a medical denial letter from the FAA because I was
taking Trazodone for insomnia. Insominia is not by itself a disabling
medical condition, but Trazodone is on their prohibited list because
it is an old anti-depresent drug. ALL anti-depresents are prohibited.
PERIOD. It does not matter what the condition is for which you are
taking the prescribed medicine: medical denied, DO NOT FLY! Well, I am
flying my glider while the paper work is being sorted out (I have a
different, much more expensive, drug prescribed for the same IDENTICAL
condition). By your reasoning, I AM UNFIT TO FLY. PERIOD, END OF
STORY! because I don't have a CURRENT MEDICAL! Never mind that glider
pilots DO NOT NEED A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to LEGALLY fly!!

My doctor DOES have a disabling disease; it is DIABETES. But he is
LEGALLY able to fly his motorgliders WITHOUT an aviation medical. I am
very confident in his ability to fly his motorgliders, to the extent
that I have allowed my wife, my kids and my mother to fly with him. By
your standards he should be GROUNDED!!!

Once, while getting a 3rd class medical, the doctor remarked about my
good health. By comparison, he pointed out another patient of his, to
whom he had granted the 3rd class medical with the warning that he
might not get it the next time, that had DIED within one year! That
guy was LEGALLY fit to fly, but died shortly after getting the
medical.

What you apparently don't realize is the system is more about the FAA
covering their respective asses than it is about protecting the
public. The system TOTALLY depends upon self reporting of medical
conditions; if you report you come under INTENSE SCRUTINY. Thus, the
incentive is: DO NOT REPORT! The Inspector General did a study
matching Social Security disability payments with certified pilots.
They found nearly 10% held CURRENT MEDICAL CERTIFICATES while
simultaneously receiving DISABILITY PAYMENTS! Only 40 of these cases
were prosecuted because of limited resources (http://
flightphysical.com/FAA/FAA-Report-Falsification/index.htm). Another
pilot I know once reported that he had an EKG performed that was
negative. The FAA required him to take an ANNUAL EKG for no damn good
reason, just to cover their asses!

Tom

Yo Tom, I wasn't demonizing anyone and if the pilot in the article
wanted to come out and fly _his_ glider, fine by me, as I've stated
before. However, I think he was flying a _club_ glider and clearly
instructing and towing, at least one of those things he definitely
should not have been doing. At some point, people need enough
personal integrity to do the right thing, especially within a club
framework, where responsibilities extend to the other members. (If
you don't like it, don't fly in clubs). This chap didn't and that's
quite simply stated in the article. I suspect if he had admitted the
loss of his medical and loss of power flight privileges to the club,
that body may well have banned him from flying club equipment and/or
the national association may have prohibited him from instructing.

I knew a youngish, at the time, BGA instructor that lost his
instructor privileges due to a heart valve replacement. He was about
30 and hiked extensively as a second pastime, but a heart valve
replacement may lead to a increase in the chance of clotting, hence
the restriction. He was not banned from flying club or personal
equipment solo.

It's certainly a tough call if it has to be made.

BTW, when the SSF does a safety audit of a soaring site, they do look
to see if the operation is tracking pertinent information about their
flying group, and suggests some internal audits to perform that are
germane to this discussion.

The FAA does all sorts of things. Heck, I know a man, at 79yo, that
got his medical back from a US Senator following a quad by-pass. It
took that sort of clout to stop the FSDO foot dragging and get the
attention of the FAA Flight Surgeon. 79yo pilots don't like to waste
time;^) He wanted to get back to test flying.

Frank


All,

I think everyone here needs a basic course in FAA medical standards
policy.
I can't provide one here, but recommend you do some research, instead of
just shooting from the hip. Start with the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical
Examiners (available on the FAA website) and pay close attention to the
"protocols" for various diseases.

When you are surprised that someone got their medical back after a CABG
(coronary artery bypass graft), or that it required a US Senator to
intervene, or that the FSDO has any role whatsoever in the medical
certification process, then you are seriously confused about the how
system
works. Recommend you also take a look at www.aviationmedicine.com . And
if
you have questions, call those guys.

There are many, many airline pilots with valid first class medicals flying
(on special issuance) for things like CABG, heart valve replacement,
atrial
fibrillation, ongoing use of anticoagulant medication, history of cancers
of
most types, diabetes controlled on oral meds, history of recurrent kidney
stones, history of depression, etc, etc.

It's all in how you approach the FAA.

Frank, the suggestion that clubs start making independent medical
certification decisions is ridiculous. The club should operate within the
law, and let the pilots make the decisions they are supposed to make under
the FAR's (61.53).

Regards,
Bullwinkle


I've listened to this arguement for all my life and now I'm old enough that
it may soon apply to me. In that time I've seen two sharply divided groups.
One loudly proclaims their 'right' to fly as PIC with innocent non-pilot
passengers until they are dead or incapcitated. They will 'game' the system
as long as they can get away with it. The other will say that their medical
conditions preclude accepting PIC responsibilities and continue to fly but
only with a safety pilot. The former group outnumbers the latter by a
significant margin. When the day comes, I intend to be in the later group.

It is correct to say that the current state of medical science, at least as
it is practiced by AME's, can't accurately predict the physical performance
of a pilot once he has left the doctor's office. It is also correct to say
that the pilot is in the best position to judge his physical condition. The
problem is that pilots are often, understandably, in denial about the extent
of their medical conditions.

Responsibility for one's actions and concern for the safety of others should
trump mere pride but sadly, it doesn't happen often enough. At some point
organizations will have to deal with a pilot in denial. It should be done
with respect, care and courtesy since we all will have to face that day -
but it should be done.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
...

I've listened to this arguement for all my life and now I'm old enough
that it may soon apply to me. In that time I've seen two sharply divided
groups. One loudly proclaims their 'right' to fly as PIC with innocent
non-pilot passengers until they are dead or incapcitated. They will
'game' the system as long as they can get away with it. The other will
say that their medical conditions preclude accepting PIC responsibilities
and continue to fly but only with a safety pilot. The former group
outnumbers the latter by a significant margin. When the day comes, I
intend to be in the later group.

It is correct to say that the current state of medical science, at least
as it is practiced by AME's, can't accurately predict the physical
performance of a pilot once he has left the doctor's office. It is also
correct to say that the pilot is in the best position to judge his
physical condition. The problem is that pilots are often, understandably,
in denial about the extent of their medical conditions.

Responsibility for one's actions and concern for the safety of others
should trump mere pride but sadly, it doesn't happen often enough. At
some point organizations will have to deal with a pilot in denial. It
should be done with respect, care and courtesy since we all will have to
face that day - but it should be done.

Bill Daniels

Bill,

A few years ago an elderly pilot, who's ability to fly far exceeds mine,
determined it was time to give up the sport. He had just completed an
outstanding flight from Sun Valley, Idaho. During the after flight
debriefing (you know, beer and "there I was, scratching the Bolders") he
stated he wanted his memories of flying to be the great flight he and just
finished and put his Mini-Nimbus on the market.

Though we miss him when we fly, we all adminre his wisdom and judgement.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

On May 6, 6:45 am, Bullwinkle wrote:
On 5/5/07 11:33 PM, in article
. com, "Frank Whiteley"



wrote:
On May 5, 8:40 pm, wrote:
On May 3, 5:21 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:

http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5621

Frank,

Before you run off and start demonizing a pilot LEGALLY excercising
his rights, you should research the subject. The fact is that
possessing a current Airmen's medical is not guarantee WHATSOEVER that
the pilot is fit to fly on any given day.

I just received a medical denial letter from the FAA because I was
taking Trazodone for insomnia. Insominia is not by itself a disabling
medical condition, but Trazodone is on their prohibited list because
it is an old anti-depresent drug. ALL anti-depresents are prohibited.
PERIOD. It does not matter what the condition is for which you are
taking the prescribed medicine: medical denied, DO NOT FLY! Well, I am
flying my glider while the paper work is being sorted out (I have a
different, much more expensive, drug prescribed for the same IDENTICAL
condition). By your reasoning, I AM UNFIT TO FLY. PERIOD, END OF
STORY! because I don't have a CURRENT MEDICAL! Never mind that glider
pilots DO NOT NEED A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE to LEGALLY fly!!

My doctor DOES have a disabling disease; it is DIABETES. But he is
LEGALLY able to fly his motorgliders WITHOUT an aviation medical. I am
very confident in his ability to fly his motorgliders, to the extent
that I have allowed my wife, my kids and my mother to fly with him. By
your standards he should be GROUNDED!!!

Once, while getting a 3rd class medical, the doctor remarked about my
good health. By comparison, he pointed out another patient of his, to
whom he had granted the 3rd class medical with the warning that he
might not get it the next time, that had DIED within one year! That
guy was LEGALLY fit to fly, but died shortly after getting the
medical.

What you apparently don't realize is the system is more about the FAA
covering their respective asses than it is about protecting the
public. The system TOTALLY depends upon self reporting of medical
conditions; if you report you come under INTENSE SCRUTINY. Thus, the
incentive is: DO NOT REPORT! The Inspector General did a study
matching Social Security disability payments with certified pilots.
They found nearly 10% held CURRENT MEDICAL CERTIFICATES while
simultaneously receiving DISABILITY PAYMENTS! Only 40 of these cases
were prosecuted because of limited resources (http://
flightphysical.com/FAA/FAA-Report-Falsification/index.htm). Another
pilot I know once reported that he had an EKG performed that was
negative. The FAA required him to take an ANNUAL EKG for no damn good
reason, just to cover their asses!

Tom

Yo Tom, I wasn't demonizing anyone and if the pilot in the article
wanted to come out and fly _his_ glider, fine by me, as I've stated
before. However, I think he was flying a _club_ glider and clearly
instructing and towing, at least one of those things he definitely
should not have been doing. At some point, people need enough
personal integrity to do the right thing, especially within a club
framework, where responsibilities extend to the other members. (If
you don't like it, don't fly in clubs). This chap didn't and that's
quite simply stated in the article. I suspect if he had admitted the
loss of his medical and loss of power flight privileges to the club,
that body may well have banned him from flying club equipment and/or
the national association may have prohibited him from instructing.

I knew a youngish, at the time, BGA instructor that lost his
instructor privileges due to a heart valve replacement. He was about
30 and hiked extensively as a second pastime, but a heart valve
replacement may lead to a increase in the chance of clotting, hence
the restriction. He was not banned from flying club or personal
equipment solo.

It's certainly a tough call if it has to be made.

BTW, when the SSF does a safety audit of a soaring site, they do look
to see if the operation is tracking pertinent information about their
flying group, and suggests some internal audits to perform that are
germane to this discussion.

The FAA does all sorts of things. Heck, I know a man, at 79yo, that
got his medical back from a US Senator following a quad by-pass. It
took that sort of clout to stop the FSDO foot dragging and get the
attention of the FAA Flight Surgeon. 79yo pilots don't like to waste
time;^) He wanted to get back to test flying.

Frank

All,

I think everyone here needs a basic course in FAA medical standards policy.
I can't provide one here, but recommend you do some research, instead of
just shooting from the hip. Start with the FAA Guide for Aviation Medical
Examiners (available on the FAA website) and pay close attention to the
"protocols" for various diseases.

When you are surprised that someone got their medical back after a CABG
(coronary artery bypass graft), or that it required a US Senator to
intervene, or that the FSDO has any role whatsoever in the medical
certification process, then you are seriously confused about the how system
works. Recommend you also take a look atwww.aviationmedicine.com. And if
you have questions, call those guys.

There are many, many airline pilots with valid first class medicals flying
(on special issuance) for things like CABG, heart valve replacement, atrial
fibrillation, ongoing use of anticoagulant medication, history of cancers of
most types, diabetes controlled on oral meds, history of recurrent kidney
stones, history of depression, etc, etc.

It's all in how you approach the FAA.

Frank, the suggestion that clubs start making independent medical
certification decisions is ridiculous. The club should operate within the
law, and let the pilots make the decisions they are supposed to make under
the FAR's (61.53).

Regards,
Bullwinkle

I didn't suggest that at all in any post. What I did say was that the
SSF suggests some auditing systems of persons at the club levels.
More specifically, last medical date/type, flight review annual part
61.69 requirements of tow pilots and last flight review date of
members and instructors. The rest is a matter of personal prerogative
except when there are extenuating circumstances.

Cheers,
Frank

This is an interesting discussion.

Frank said: I didn't suggest that at all in any post.

From the earlier post:
I suspect if he had admitted the
loss of his medical and loss of power flight privileges to the club,
that body may well have banned him from flying club equipment and/or
the national association may have prohibited him from instructing.

If that's not a club or national association (like the SSA or BGA?) making
aeromedical decisions, I don't know what is.

If you don't require a medical for your national certifying body (like the
FAA), and your club bans someone from flying because of their medical
condition, that club is making an aeromedical decision.

I suppose it could be club policy to not allow pilots to fly if their FAA
(or other national certifying body) medical application has been denied. But
what about a person with the exact same medical condition(s), who has never
applied for FAA aeromedical certification, and thus has not been denied? If
that person shows up, and is willing to state they "have no known medical
condition that would affect my ability to fly safely", would you be happy
with that?

This is the whole light sport pilot issue with medical certification and FAA
denials. We in gliding can ignore that, since it doesn't apply to us.

Clubs, at least in the litigious USA, would be well advised to avoid getting
sucked into this kind of discussion.

Bullwinkle

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

A few years ago an elderly pilot, whose ability to fly far exceeds mine,
determined it was time to give up the sport. He had just completed an
outstanding flight from Sun Valley, Idaho. During the after flight
debriefing (you know, beer and "there I was, scratching the Bolders") he
stated he wanted his memories of flying to be the great flight he and just
finished and put his Mini-Nimbus on the market.

Though we miss him when we fly, we all adminre his wisdom and judgement.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

My father-in -law (now deceased alas) was driving cars well into his
eighties. He was a very keen driver - he had learned on a Model T when he
was doing his BS at Carnegie Mellon in the 20s. We used to lunch together
from time to time and yarn (both of us were engineers with loads of
stories). Normally I drove us to the lunch spot, but on this particular day
he said he would drive. We had our usual jolly lunch and as I paid the bill
he passed his car keys across the table to me and said ' The car's yours
now; I'm not driving any more'. A very sensible decision by a man for whom I
had enormous respect. I would hope that all pilots would be able to face
facts as he did. There is no shame in flying with a safety pilot. When my
time comes (soon) I will accept this gracefully.

Alistair Wright

Alistair,

A pedantic correction - your father-in-law wasn't getting his BS in
the 20s from Carnegie Mellon, he was getting it from Carnegie
Institute of Technology. My class (1970) was the last to graduate from
CIT, before they defiled a proud name solely because of naked greed.

-John

He was a very keen driver - he had learned on a Model T when he
was doing his BS at Carnegie Mellon in the 20s.