Making a VFR C152 IFR

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

step 1: read the FAR about required equipment. There's no requirement
to have 2 NAV/COMs.

step 2: decide what type of IFR flying you will do in the 152. What
equipment makes sense and is economically viable?

step 3: talk to other 152/IFR owners about what they would do
differently or the same.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 03:57:44 GMT, Paul Folbrecht
wrote:

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

1. You will need an updated database for the GPS.
2. GPS will need a CDI and annunciator panel
3. Pitot/Static & Transponder/Encoder certification

Avionics installs are not cheap. Expect a thousand dollars for an
audio panel install. Several thousand for a GPS install.

Here's a pricelist for installed new equipment by Penn Avionics.
http://www.pennavionics.com/Garmin_price_list.jpg You can probably
find the list prices for the equipment and work backwards to get an
idea of the install cost. As well, a lot of shops don't want to
install radios from 'outside' sources, particularly used ones off of
eBay.

If you buy an audio panel - I'd get one with an integrated intercom
(if you don't already have) & one with integrated marker beacon
receiver.

Does your existing nav/com have LOC/GS? If not, it may make sense to
sell it and look for a used KX155.

Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.

-Nathan

Nathan Young wrote:
[snip]

Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.

Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
152 is worth.

Blanche wrote:
Nathan Young wrote:
[snip]


Alternatively, you could sell all your stuff and put in a GNS430.
NAV/COM/LOC/GS/GPS all in one box, and it doesn't require the
annunciator panel. There are redundancy issues with this approach,
but you can cheaply add some redundancy via handheld GPS and radio.


Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
152 is worth.

Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is never going
to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing it would be usable
for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum equipment required. One VOR
receiver. Get the static/transponder system certified. OK, add a glide slope
just for training purposes. Anything more is just putting too much money into an
airplane that isn't going anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive
than you can justify.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave Butler wrote:
: Yup. And at this point you've now spent almost/as much as the
: 152 is worth.

: Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is never going
: to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing it would be usable
: for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum equipment required. One VOR
: receiver. Get the static/transponder system certified. OK, add a glide slope
: just for training purposes. Anything more is just putting too much money into an
: airplane that isn't going anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive
: than you can justify.

That's pretty much the way to go. A 152 doesn't have the range or climb
performance to much real IFR. For training purposes, at least 50% is basic airwork
under the hood, with some tracking thrown in. For equipment, you need one precision,
and two other types. ILS, LOC, and VOR will make it a legit checkride. Put in a
glideslope and get the pitot/static check done. Some sort of GPS is really nice to
have, but getting one IFR-certified installed is where the big bucks are. Talk to
your instructor about using a VFR GPS as a DME for training (in VMC). Then you've got
four different types of approaches you can practice. The hard part is learning how to
control the plane and what's necessary to do *an* approach. The actual equipment and
type of approaches don't matter as much.

-Cory
--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

I don't particularly intend the aircraft to be a serious IFR X-C
machine. I intend it be equipped for short-to-medium X-Cs in less than
perfect VFR weather. No hard IMC for me - ever, most likely.

See my soon-to-be post further down for what I'm leaning towards now...

Yup again. That's the difficulty with this whole concept. The 152 is
never going to be a serious IFR cross-country airplane. The only thing
it would be usable for IFR is training. So equip it with the minimum
equipment required. One VOR receiver. Get the static/transponder system
certified. OK, add a glide slope just for training purposes. Anything
more is just putting too much money into an airplane that isn't going
anywhere. IFR GPS is going to be way more expensive than you can justify.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

The basic requirement for IFR is not a whole lot more than for VFR.
You don't need two nav's (or any nav at all), although that would be
nice. The FAR outlines what you need to fly IFR. Besides the regular
six pack instruments (except the VSI), your altimeter must be accurate
to within 75 ft, and your transponder's altitude encoder must have
been inspected to IFR standards.


Paul Folbrecht wrote in message link.net...
I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

I was aware of the equipment required by the FARs for IFR, but that
isn't real-world. Right? To fly approaches you need substantially more
equipment than that, of course. The different types of approaches and
equipment make the subject complex at first sight to the neophyte.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

The basic requirement for IFR is not a whole lot more than for VFR.
You don't need two nav's (or any nav at all), although that would be
nice. The FAR outlines what you need to fly IFR. Besides the regular
six pack instruments (except the VSI), your altimeter must be accurate
to within 75 ft, and your transponder's altitude encoder must have
been inspected to IFR standards.

That depends on your comfort level. Unless you want to fly in hard IFR
on a regular basis, you can get by with the minimum equipment. A
handheld GPS and a heldheld radio will serve as good backups in case
you lose electricals. A handheld device is a better backup than a
panel mount device due to the independent power source. In my view
people spend way too much money on these things for the conditions
they are likely to fly in.




Paul Folbrecht wrote in message nk.net...
I was aware of the equipment required by the FARs for IFR, but that
isn't real-world. Right? To fly approaches you need substantially more
equipment than that, of course. The different types of approaches and
equipment make the subject complex at first sight to the neophyte.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

The basic requirement for IFR is not a whole lot more than for VFR.
You don't need two nav's (or any nav at all), although that would be
nice. The FAR outlines what you need to fly IFR. Besides the regular
six pack instruments (except the VSI), your altimeter must be accurate
to within 75 ft, and your transponder's altitude encoder must have
been inspected to IFR standards.