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After an annual?



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 20th 06, 07:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
tom418
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default After an annual?

And check under the cowling for breeze clamps being oriented correctly on
SCAT hoses. Once I had a hole worn through the lower cowling on my Cherokee
after a shop had the screw part of a heater clamp chafing on the cowling.
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , "BT"
wrote:

- Log Books are in order, every thing signed off, transponder checks

signed
off if needed.
- A very through preflight, touch everything, is the seat loose in the
tracks? I once had a back seat come loose, it was not reinstalled

properly.
- Check all inspectin panels, internal and external, touch everything
- Under the cowl, check all spark plugs and leads, fan belt, alternator
wires
- Check oil filter is secured (safety wire), oil filler cap and oil

level
- Check all fuel drains, make sure tanks are filled to the level you

want.
- Tires should have been removed to grease the bearings, check for

proper
tightness and cotter pins.
- Engine runup, Static RPM check (do you know how to do a static check

and
what your numbers are?)
- Ground VOR Check?
- Taxi back, shut it down and do another full preflight, this time

checking
for every thing and any thing that leaks.
- Only fly it back in DAY VFR conditions and SOLO.

BT

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
When you pick up your plane after an annual, is there any special

things
you do? I'm picking up the club's Lance after its annual today, and
flying it back from Batavia NY to Rochester NY (about a 25 minute

flight).
Do you do any special pre-flight or flight check? I was planning to

climb
up over the airport to about 4,000 feet so that I'll have some glide
cushion if something goes wrong.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
There are mushrooms that can survive weeks, months without air or

food.
They just dry out and when water comes back, they wake up again. And

call
the helldesk about their password expiring. -- after Jens Benecke and
Tanuki


Check all the controls are rigged right. Does left deflection on the yoke
really give you left deflection on the ailerons? Ditto for elevator and
rudder.

I once picked up an Archer that had the electric trim worked on. I ran

the
trim all the way to one end with the electric thumb switch, and when it
reached the end it made a big "CLUNK" noise and wouldn't budge from that
position. I'm glad I caught that on the ground.

I once picked up a plane from an annual and flew it back home in night

IMC.
All I can say about that one is that we learn from our mistakes.

Check under the cowling. One guy in my club got a really nice Snap-On
wrench by doing a good preflight on a plane which had been flown home from
an annual the day before.



Ads
  #32  
Old December 20th 06, 07:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
tom418
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default After an annual?

I ALWAYS check the gascolators on my Seneca for leaks . If they're not
tightened properly after cleaning they WILL leak. "Paul Tomblin"
wrote in message
...
When you pick up your plane after an annual, is there any special things
you do? I'm picking up the club's Lance after its annual today, and
flying it back from Batavia NY to Rochester NY (about a 25 minute flight).
Do you do any special pre-flight or flight check? I was planning to climb
up over the airport to about 4,000 feet so that I'll have some glide
cushion if something goes wrong.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
There are mushrooms that can survive weeks, months without air or food.
They just dry out and when water comes back, they wake up again. And call
the helldesk about their password expiring. -- after Jens Benecke and

Tanuki


  #33  
Old December 21st 06, 03:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
[email protected][_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default After an annual?

On 20 Dec 2006 09:30:34 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


wrote:
On 19 Dec 2006 20:02:13 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:
The "factory service centers" I deal with now don't have the staffing
nor the insurance to keep trained crews available to fly customer
aircraft.

The "factory service centers" I used to deal with would NOT fly any
aircraft that I was responsible for-it was bad enuff when I was forced
to let them perform maintenance.


My experience is mostly with Mooney shops. However, I've worked with
several. Not a single plane goes out of any of them for anything more
than an oil change w/o a test flight by a 'test pilot'. In fact they
all do pre-annual test flights before starting the annual.
I know the Cirrus shops are the same. I've not worked with Cessna or
Piper though. Perhaps they don't fly their own airplanes.


We used to do the same thing. After I alllegedly got my ticket, I was
able to do the before/after inspection or maintenance flight without
somebody to make it legal sitting in the right seat. But this has
nothing to do with a 91.407 "test flight".

Also, as I've indicated previously, if the service facility considers
a .407 flight necessary, it must write it into the maintenance record
sign-off as such, and the bird is not approved for return to service
until after that flight is performed and duly noted.

TC
  #34  
Old December 21st 06, 04:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
RST Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,147
Default After an annual?

Toe ...

The misunderstanding in this whole thread is that the FAA gives wide
latitude to the MECHANIC to determine what is required and what is not. A
rookie wrench on his first engine installation would probably want to fly
the airplane a couple of hours just to be sure that (s)he did it right.
After your tenth or twentieth motor swap, give the owner the keys and kick
him out the door.

That isn't just unwritten legend. I have a document here in front of me
published by Western Region ("Plane Sense") that prints the words, "It is
the MECHANIC'S opinion as to what constitutes a major or minor repair or
modification". That pretty much cuts it for me.

Jim



Also, as I've indicated previously, if the service facility considers
a .407 flight necessary, it must write it into the maintenance record
sign-off as such, and the bird is not approved for return to service
until after that flight is performed and duly noted.

TC



  #36  
Old December 21st 06, 08:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
karl gruber[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 396
Default After an annual?


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
"It is
the MECHANIC'S opinion as to what constitutes a major or minor repair or
modification". That pretty much cuts it for me.



Unfortunately, it may not cut it for the next mechanic that wants to sign
off the airplane. Or it might not cut it for the FAA maintenance inspector
when you want to put it on 135.

Mechanics opinions don't carry much weight in aviation. FAA paperwork does.

Karl


  #37  
Old December 21st 06, 09:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Newps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,886
Default After an annual?



karl gruber wrote:

Mechanics opinions don't carry much weight in aviation. FAA paperwork does.


Mechanics opinions carry most of the weight when dealing with the FAA.
A short converstaion with your local FSDO inspector will quickly show
you that. We had a new pilot buy a piece of **** Beech Musketeer and
bring it back here. this guy knew less than nothing and had no business
buying an airplane. Engine doesn't make compression, dozens of rivets
sanded to with an inch of their life, magnesium control surfaces
horribly corroded, windshield has two cracks at least a foot long, the
spinner is from a Piper Cub. When all of this and more was brought to
the attention of the FSDO they said there's nothing they can do unless
the annual was signed off preety much that day. A few months and all
bets are off. The FAA legal department would never allow them to ground
that plane or go after the IA.
  #38  
Old December 22nd 06, 05:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
[email protected][_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default After an annual?

On 21 Dec 2006 11:04:34 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


wrote:
On 20 Dec 2006 09:30:34 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:
Also, as I've indicated previously, if the service facility considers
a .407 flight necessary, it must write it into the maintenance record
sign-off as such, and the bird is not approved for return to service
until after that flight is performed and duly noted.


I just had my aileron replaced at the factory service center this last
summer. I'll double check my log books but I believe there are two sign
offs. The first is the IA who signed off the work, the second is the
test pilot who signed off the test flight.

sig snip

Which takes us all the way back to your original question:

On 19 Dec 2006 13:30:20 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

snip
Isn't that required by regulation (although only minimum crew is
allowed)? Doesn't the pilot have to sign the aircraft log as RTS after
the break in?

sig snip

I am by no means saying that a 91.407 flight MAY be performed after
just about ANY maintenance.

What I am trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to point out that it is
NOT required by regulation for approval for return to service. Also,
that I could/would (and in other similiar situations have allegedly
actually had to) stand nose-to-nose with the FAA and tell them to pack
sand if they told me it WAS required.

The only way that it would be clearly required by regulation is under

Sec. 43.13 Performance rules (general).
(a) Each person performing maintenance, alteration, or preventive
maintenance on an aircraft, engine, propeller, or appliance shall use
the methods, techniques, and practices prescribed in the current
manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued
Airworthiness prepared by its manufacturer, or other methods,
techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator, except as
noted in Sec. 43.16. He shall use the tools, equipment, and test
apparatus necessary to assure completion of the work in accordance
with accepted industry practices. If special equipment or test
apparatus is recommended by the manufacturer involved, he must use
that equipment or apparatus or its equivalent acceptable to the
Administrator.

Again, if the AMM states that a flight test be performed after a
specific maintenance task, it must be performed prior to approval for
return to service.

Again, on specific aircraft, there are specific tasks that do call out
a flight test.

Again, I can NOT speak for the AMM on your particular aircraft, but I
personally have NEVER seen an AMM that requires a flight test after
an engine change. I also seriously doubt that your Mooney AMM requires
a flight test after a flight control surface R/R.

If it IS called for in your specific AMM, then I am 100% WRONG, and a
flight test IS required by regulation.

If the approved repair station manual at a Pt 145 maintenance
facility for some strange reason requires a flight test, then again, I
am 100% WRONG and in this case a flight test IS also required.

While I have allegedly inspected/maintained/operated Pt 91 aircraft
type certificated under CAR3 & Pt 23, inspected/maintained Pt 135
aircraft under CAR3 & Pt 23, and inspected/maintained Pt 91 aircraft
under Pt 25 using my own hypothetical tickets; I have never had the
pleasure of working under a Pt 145 "roof". If you're not sure what all
that means, ask Mr. Weir.

As the Weir-meister has indirectly pointed out, the majority of 91.407
rides are performed because the certificated technician/authorized
inspector/repair station QA person responsible for the work has
decided that (s)he will sleep better at night with a .407 sign-off in
the aircraft maintenance record.

I positively agree in these cases that 91.407 can be used as a
justification for a test flight, but still cannot agree that it is
REQUIRED after routine maintenance unless the above condition (AMM
call out) exists.

In the past, I have allegedly performed major airframe alterations
under the STC/337 process that have absolutely positively
"appreciably changed its flight characteristics" AND "substantially
affected its operation in flight" and approved them for return to
service without a 91.407 flight. Vortex generator installations, for
instance-as Mr. Noel pointed out, another example is an STC'd engine
upgrade.

Again, unless the approved installation instructions specifically
require a flight test, it is up to the judgement of the warm body
responsible under the CFR, it is not required by the CFR.

TC
  #39  
Old December 23rd 06, 03:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Darrel Toepfer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default After an annual?

Roy Smith wrote:

Check under the cowling. One guy in my club got a really nice Snap-On
wrench by doing a good preflight on a plane which had been flown home
from an annual the day before.


Got a nice Snap-On angled pick this year doing an owner assisted annual on
a friends plane... Comes in handy for lining up screw holes...
  #40  
Old December 23rd 06, 06:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
E Andersen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default After an annual? READ THIS

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...21X01825&key=1


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
When you pick up your plane after an annual, is there any special things
you do? I'm picking up the club's Lance after its annual today, and
flying it back from Batavia NY to Rochester NY (about a 25 minute flight).
Do you do any special pre-flight or flight check? I was planning to climb
up over the airport to about 4,000 feet so that I'll have some glide
cushion if something goes wrong.



 




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