ASG-29E vs. JS-1Jet Sustainer

The mixer is actually very different and Schleicher spent much time on this.. So is the lay up schedule for the spar, and an extra layer of carbon on the wing. Wing root airfoil is different and the outboard sections of airfoil have been changed. The empty weight of a 29 compared to a 27 both at 15 meters is about 80 pounds.

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 8:38:55 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The mixer is actually very different and Schleicher spent much time on this. So is the lay up schedule for the spar, and an extra layer of carbon on the wing. Wing root airfoil is different and the outboard sections of airfoil have been changed. The empty weight of a 29 compared to a 27 both at 15 meters is about 80 pounds.

My ASW 27B empty weight was 542 lbs with instruments and one battery. My ASG 29 in 15 Meter(serial # 16) is 585 lbs with the same instruments and one battery. In 18 Meter my ASG 29 weights 606 pds. Been weighted many, many times.

Later models of 29 weight did change due to wing layup. 29 mixer is "blueprinted" so all are exactly the same. On the 27 mixer each was hand made which might have caused a variable which was thought to be not measurable. Remember when the flaps and ailerons are preset at the factory, they are checked very closely as the different selections are made, i.e., from 1 to landing flap.
Same exact mold used for the 27 fuselage is used for the 29 fuselage. Rudders just slightly bigger. Been to the factory, been over this several times. Even saw the 15 meter tip molds when the were brand spanking new.
In 15 Meter the difference between the 27 and 29 will be max wing loading as the 29 will have the higher wing loading of 12.2 V 11.2 for a 27.

JS 1 Jet versus ASG 29 sub with electric start? Either one would be a great choice and its really a owners choice. JS 1 will bring a lower wing loading and better climb in weak conditions. The 29 will have a higher wing loading and better running performance in strong conditions. Either one will be countless smiles!

#711.

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The mixer is actually very different and Schleicher spent much time on this. So is the lay up schedule for the spar, and an extra layer of carbon on the wing. Wing root airfoil is different and the outboard sections of airfoil have been changed. The empty weight of a 29 compared to a 27 both at 15 meters is about 80 pounds.

Interesting to read this. When the '29 came out I heard there was a new outboard airfoil and wanted to modify my '27 with it. I pulled templates off a friend's '29 and lo and behold there was no perceptible difference. Certainly the winglet changed but we had done that in 2000. The winglet is very similar to what we did for the '27 back then with thicker, more conservative airfoil.
Obviously the structure changes when you go to 18M.
UH

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 11:38:55 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The mixer is actually very different and Schleicher spent much time on this. So is the lay up schedule for the spar, and an extra layer of carbon on the wing. Wing root airfoil is different and the outboard sections of airfoil have been changed. The empty weight of a 29 compared to a 27 both at 15 meters is about 80 pounds.

Interesting to read this. When the '29 came out I heard there was a new outboard airfoil and wanted to modify my '27 with it. I pulled templates off a friend's '29 and lo and behold there was no perceptible difference. Certainly the winglet changed but we had done that in 2000. The winglet is very similar to what we did for the '27 back then with thicker, more conservative airfoil.
Obviously the structure changes when you go to 18M.
UH

I am a bit perplexed as well.

The Schleicher mixer seems to be designed to assure that in landing flap the ailerons go to negative so the tips don't stall with the flaps at ~40 degrees. This doesn't strike me as something that requires a lot of fine-tuning, compared to (for example) making sure that the flap handle positions correspond to the correct flap angles so the pilot can set the correct flap position to match the airspeed and wing loading, per the Operating Manual. However, that exercise has more to do with matching the flap handle detents to the correct calculated/derived flap angles as part of manufacturing for each production unit more than anything to do with the mixer per se. It seems even less plausible if the airfoil sections are in fact the same.

9B

I've spent a long time on this and I ordered a JS1 last month. The key difference for me is 15/18 vs 18/21. I fly a Discus BT and am of the opinion that 15m turbos don't work that well because of the higher minimum wing loading. I would probably fly a 29 in 18m 99% of the time so the 15m mode would be irrelevant. With the JS1 you can pop on 21m tips and blast around at 60:1. The other feature is purely fun related - i come from a family of fighter pilots but didn't get into the RAF, so having my own jet is the next best thing :-D

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 3:23:38 AM UTC-7, Jim Pengelly wrote:
I've spent a long time on this and I ordered a JS1 last month. The key difference for me is 15/18 vs 18/21. I fly a Discus BT and am of the opinion that 15m turbos don't work that well because of the higher minimum wing loading. I would probably fly a 29 in 18m 99% of the time so the 15m mode would be irrelevant. With the JS1 you can pop on 21m tips and blast around at 60:1. The other feature is purely fun related - i come from a family of fighter pilots but didn't get into the RAF, so having my own jet is the next best thing :-D


Intersting. When I was searching for a glider to order I could not get a response back from either Jonkers nor Binder even after repeated attempts. Schleicher, Schempp, and even the former rep for Lange were all very prompt and responsive to questions and very helpful. As a former business owner, if a company cannot respond to inquiries to purchase, they certainly will not respond to lesser inquiries and it makes me wonder how they are organized and run. Just saying. Good luck with your new bird, and stay safe.

Interesting. When I was searching for a glider to order I could not get a response back from either Jonkers nor Binder even after repeated attempts.. Schleicher, Schempp, and even the former rep for Lange were all very prompt and responsive to questions and very helpful. As a former business owner, if a company cannot respond to inquiries to purchase, they certainly will not respond to lesser inquiries and it makes me wonder how they are organized and run. Just saying. Good luck with your new bird, and stay safe.


I contacted Jonkers last fall when trying to decide on a new glider. The factory AND the USA Sales Rep were very prompt and professional. I eventually went with Schleicher, but I had no reservations with my contact with Jonkers. Being a professional Buyer for 25 years and working with over 400 Sales Reps, in my opinion, they were excellent.
Craig

I had the opposite experience in the UK. I dropped a note to the UK/Europe dealer Andy Davis and basically got 24/7 replies to my emails/telephone calls asking hundreds of questions for weeks on end. I struggled to get anything out of the Schempp-Hirth agent and the Schleicher agent was OK. I guess they are very low volume sales and I imagine that a lot of the customers have already decided what they want before they get in touch so they aren't really selling they are just accepting orders. I know from Andy Davis that both M&D (JS's European partner for EASA certification and supplier of the jet turbine) and JS in SA are absolutely flat out so it's great to have a good agent to get information out of them.

Your experience does not compute with my extensive personal experience or the experiences related to me by others about the JS agent in the US.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 1:06:28 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


Intersting. When I was searching for a glider to order I could not get a response back from either Jonkers nor Binder even after repeated attempts. Schleicher, Schempp, and even the former rep for Lange were all very prompt and responsive to questions and very helpful. As a former business owner, if a company cannot respond to inquiries to purchase, they certainly will not respond to lesser inquiries and it makes me wonder how they are organized and run. Just saying. Good luck with your new bird, and stay safe.


Jonathan, what country do you live in?