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#21
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contrails
Ah, the old "Common man can't do his own critical thinking on an
important matter" argument. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. No wonder Al Gore refuses to debate anyone on the topic. ..02NO |
#22
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contrails
What I'd like to know, is what will be the impact felt by us as
sailplane pilots. Since this is RAS, and there are content cops patrolling the internets. Will we: Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes? Selling our 2-stroke powered sailplanes because the 2-stroke will be vilified? Finding it harder and harder to justify aero-towing, due to fuel costs and the perception that a bunch of "rich" guys wanna play. Be looking at winching, for real this time? Be riding our bikes to the airport? I won't pretend I can participate in the science part of the debate, but when it comes to what "pain" are we going to feel in order to implement whatever is deemed necessary to "reduce" glabal war.........er, I mean Climate Change, I sure have some concerns to talk about! Brad |
#23
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contrails
On Dec 23, 4:18*pm, Tuno wrote:
Ah, the old "Common man can't do his own critical thinking on an important matter" argument. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. No wonder Al Gore refuses to debate anyone on the topic. .02NO Never trust a guy with one name! Algore |
#24
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contrails
On Dec 23, 7:31*pm, Brad wrote:
What I'd like to know, is what will be the impact felt by us as sailplane pilots. Since this is RAS, and there are content cops patrolling the internets. Will we: Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes? Selling our 2-stroke powered sailplanes because the 2-stroke will be vilified? Finding it harder and harder to justify aero-towing, due to fuel costs and the perception that a bunch of "rich" guys wanna play. Be looking at winching, for real this time? Be riding our bikes to the airport? I won't pretend I can participate in the science part of the debate, but when it comes to what "pain" are we going to feel in order to implement whatever is deemed necessary to "reduce" glabal war.........er, I mean Climate Change, I sure have some concerns to talk about! Brad Probably some new ridge soaring opportunities within a few thousands of years, when the glaciers return. -T8 |
#25
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contrails
On Dec 23, 6:11*pm, bildan wrote:
So, do I 'believe' in global warming? *It's not a matter of belief - it's a matter of what the data is saying. *What is available now is extremely alarming. I regard that point as honestly debatable. And all the hot air out of Al Gore to the contrary, I do not think we've really had that debate. I'd like to see this chap (Richard Lindzen, MIT prof.) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...917025400.html get a little more airplay as I think he's done some excellent work and tough luck that the results don't play well with the current political agenda. You can hardly call this "sniping at the edges". Don't doubt for a moment that NCAR is full of earnest, smart, hard working guys. And I think that if pressed over a couple of beers that they will probably admit that their models are full of problems. That's part of what Lindzen's work is all about: getting the atmospheric data that will validate (or not) these models. Mostly "not" at the moment, it appears. And until they *are* validated, the models are not useful for prediction, full stop. One thing I've wondered about rather idly, that I have not seen come up in discussions on the topic of AGW, is what the AGW proponents think about the cycle of the ice ages, and if these cycles are supposed to have become irrelevant. My home has spent the majority of the last million years under a *lot* of ice and snow. In fact, that should probably be regarded as the normal condition here in what we now call New Hampshire, USA. Do these guys *really* believe that the cycle of the ice ages has been broken? If so, does their model predict the end of the Holocene and a return to an ice age in the absence of anthropogenic CO2? If not... pray tell, *why* not? I don't work in this area. I have a business, well two of 'em actually, to run, a family to take care of and a sweetheart of a curvy beautiful 24 year old glider to fly in such spare time as I have, so about all *I* have time to do on AGW is "snipe at the edges". In so doing, I hope to plant seeds of rational thought in others' minds such that we become as a whole a bit more resistant to being hearded about like so many sheep. -Evan Ludeman / T8 |
#26
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contrails
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:13:54 -0800, Newill wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:38Â*am, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:21:46 -0800, Frank Whiteley wrote: Note my comments to the article about soaring near Oxford when the persistent contrails filled the southern sky. Yes, and I remember the discussion on r.a.s about contrails and their spread-out to form cirrus just after the post-9/11 three day warm period was reported. IIRC the discussion then was about the effect of contrails in the soaring areas beneath flight paths out of large US West Coast airports. -- In the USA there was a rather well done program on NOVA or Frontline (PBS) that investigated the impact of the contrails and concluded that contrails actually contribute to global cooling - not warming! So, how did they explain the 1 degree C rise in ground temperature during the three days when all civil aviation was grounded? -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#27
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contrails
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:31:41 -0800, Brad wrote:
Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes? My guess is yes. I want one, I want one NOW. Be looking at winching, for real this time? I hope so. I really enjoy winching. Also , I want to try a launch off one of the German electric winches. Be riding our bikes to the airport? The distance to the glider field is a problem almost everywhere. Noise is probably a good part of that, but again winches are the answer: even an ugly old diesel winch has a vastly smaller noise footprint than a tow plane or a 2-stroke self-launcher. Our Supacat has a 240 hp V8 aircooled Deutz diesel on straight pipes. It has to be a very still, silent day for us to hear it from the launch point. I've heard it at dawn during the Longest Day madness but you have to listen. Apart from that I've heard it once during the day and was quite surprised to have done so. I reckon an electric winch would be ideal on both noise and pollution grounds: the black plume from the winch if its launching something heavy looks pretty ugly. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#28
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contrails
On Dec 23, 5:44*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote: On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:13:54 -0800, Newill wrote: On Dec 23, 10:38*am, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:21:46 -0800, Frank Whiteley wrote: Note my comments to the article about soaring near Oxford when the persistent contrails filled the southern sky. Yes, and I remember the discussion on r.a.s about contrails and their spread-out to form cirrus just after the post-9/11 three day warm period was reported. IIRC the discussion then was about the effect of contrails in the soaring areas beneath flight paths out of large US West Coast airports. -- In the USA there was a rather well done program on NOVA or Frontline (PBS) that investigated the impact of the contrails and concluded that contrails actually contribute to global cooling - not warming! So, how did they explain the 1 degree C rise in ground temperature during the three days when all civil aviation was grounded? -- martin@ * | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org * * * | you know, according to noetic scientists, the collective consciousness of the world was measurable on that day.................or so I read. Brad |
#29
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contrails
Al Gore might sound a little bit more believable if he didn't jetset
around the world in .... not just one.....but TWO private jets that have EXTREMELY high fuel burns per hour - (compared to other corporate jets of similar size). Not only did he buy a couple of jets that are notorious for being fuel hogs, he also built a few mega mansions that were very energy-in-efficient. Don't you think if Al really believed this stuff he would practice what he preached? Once he started getting criticized for this matter, he converted his houses into extremely energy efficient designs. Guess he didn't want to jeapordize his empire of wealth obtained from scaring the world about how half of Florida will be under water. Let's not forget about his subliminal messages of nuclear bombs going off in his movie An Incovenient Truth! see this link for a picture..... http://media.photobucket.com/image/b...g/gorenuke.jpg This whole mess sounds about as believable as when the Greeks claimed that a giant named "Atlas" was holding up the earth on his shoulders. Back when the greeks were the cutting edge of science and theory, that seemed like a reasonable thing. Earthquakes? Atlas was moving around and it caused the ground to shake. One day, scientists will look back at this era and laugh. Some scientists believe our earth is soooooo incredibly huge that the polluntants we put in the atmosphere are like a grain of sand on a large beach. So small you can't even find it if you look hard. But a theory like that wont sell tickets, popcorn and a 25 dollar pack of junior mints at your local movie theatre. Ever been to L.A.? Doesn't all that smog look terrible? You may not know this, That smog has been there since well before planes, trains and automobiles. That's why the native indians (the Chumash tribe) hundreds of years ago named it "The Valley of Smoke". It was smoggy back then and it is smoggy today. Hey by the way - What ever happened to that "hole in the ozone" did they ever get that thing patched up ok? |
#30
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contrails
Hey by the way - What ever happened to that "hole in the ozone" did they ever get that thing patched up ok? No, that hole is how the spaceship the Maitreya is riding around in is going to slip into the atmoshpere. How does all this tie in you ask?? Climate change, Global Warming, Peak Oil, insert_calamity_here, will all be fixed by this dude.....don't believe it?? Wait for the next ad on cable TV his pals are running, you know, the "bright star" pulsating light in the sky? Ok................I'm ready for the content police to take me away! Brad |
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